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1993 F-150 Flare Side

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    1993 F-150 Flare Side

    Hey everyone,

    I went to town on the '93 F150. Some may recall that we bought it about a month ago- 5.8 with an E4OD trans, Flare Side. It was originally a 5.0 and the "new" engine appears to be from an '88 truck, based on the date code of one of the throttlebody's coolant lines. Aside from a few giveaways, the swap appears factory and it runs without setting the CEL. Truck had a very high idle when we got it, I unplugged the IAC before the trip home and the idle came down to about 800 rpm. It also idled poorly, rather shakey. Anyway, we did the plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Used NGK V-power copper plugs and their cool blue wires. I really dig the wires, they come labeled as to which one goes where. The new plugs and all that jazz cleared the poor idle quality up. Went to check timing and that's where things got weird. Unlike the 5.0's I'm used to, I cannot for the life of me identify any timing marks on the harmonic balancer. All this thing has is one big notch in it. A notch which didn't show up while I was setting the timing, or trying to. From my tinkering I suspect the timing was severely retarded. Advancing it got my idle pretty nice & low, but once the spout connector goes back in, it still idles high, just not as high. I'd like to know where my timing is, rather than just keep advancing it. How do the 5.8's do it and are there supposed to be marks on the balancer? The videos I've seen online show marks on the balancer, but I've got nothing even after running some scotch brite all over it. I also need to connect my scan tool to it to see what's going on. I suspect that while someone swapped the engine in OK, they did NOT swap the ECM. Apparently a 5.8 will run off a 5.0 computer... Seems getting the ECM out of these is a PITA, looks like the steering column has to drop.

    I think I found the sole source of our exhaust leak- one of the exhaust manifold bolts on cylinder 8 is missing. Yikes. Anyone want to take bets as to whether or not a new bolt will just thread right in there and solve the issue??
    1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
    1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

    #2
    The balancer may have thin marks on it that are rather crusted over by surface rust. if the scotchbright trick didn't reveal anything... it may have been filed off already. The deep groove is for the sensor that's mounted in the hole on the timing marker bracket. I don't remember how far off that is from the timing marks, but it is quite a ways. Short of getting a new balancer, if you can find someone to dial indicate the degrees that notch is from the marks and make your own, that might work. TDC and marking the balancer is also an option.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

    Originally posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

    Originally posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

    Comment


      #3
      I second finding tdc and purchasing timing tape.
      ~David~

      My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
      My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

      Originally posted by ootdega
      My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

      Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
      But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

      Originally posted by gadget73
      my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




      Comment


        #4
        Ah man, you guys are going to make me use my brain. Would it matter if I'm at TDC on the exhaust or compression stroke? Is there a type of timing tape everyone likes to use for their Fords?
        1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
        1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

        Comment


          #5
          TDC does not matter timing or compression for aligning marks. As for tape? No clue. I've always managed to find the marks on mine and use some kind of bright marker or paint to make the line I want pop.

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

          Originally posted by gadget73
          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

          Originally posted by dmccaig
          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

          Comment


            #6
            I dont have any experience with timing tapes other than knowing they exist.
            ~David~

            My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
            My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

            Originally posted by ootdega
            My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

            Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
            But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

            Originally posted by gadget73
            my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post
              I dont have any experience with timing tapes other than knowing they exist.
              I'd go with the paint, myself.
              What I Own: 1993 Mercury Grand Marquis GS
              What I Help Maintain: 1996 CV / 1988 CV / 1988 Tempo

              Comment


                #8
                Assuming the balancer is stock 289/302/351, you can do it the cheap way.
                Get a strip of paper, put it on the balancer on your TC, mark the important marks.
                Transfer and tape that marked paper strip to your 351 balancer, lining it up once you know where TDC is.
                Vic

                ~ 1989 MGM LS Colony Park - Large Marge
                ~ 1998 MGM LS - new DD
                ~ 1991 MGM LS "The Scab"
                ~ 1991 MGM GS "The Ice Car"

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by friskyfrankie View Post

                  I'd go with the paint, myself.
                  Yes. If the timing marks existed.

                  I love using the paint marker for them. Can mark different lengths to indicate different degrees to boot.


                  I am perplexed how there are no timing marks.

                  Run the engine and get your scotch brite on that balancer! Should find something. So strange.
                  ~David~

                  My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                  My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                  Originally posted by ootdega
                  My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                  Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                  But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                  Originally posted by gadget73
                  my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




                  Comment


                    #10
                    also haven't seen one with no marks but have seen plenty that were good and crusty to the point that it was very hard to find them without spending some time with a wire brush and a breaker bar.


                    If you can find TDC and mark that, the rest doesn't matter. Just need a timing light that you can dial the advance on. Set the light to 10 BTDC and align the TDC mark to the pointer. I have a dumb light that lacks this but apparently they aren't real expensive.


                    tdc is tdc, doesn't matter what stroke its on.
                    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                    Originally posted by phayzer5
                    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by VicCrownVic View Post
                      Assuming the balancer is stock 289/302/351, you can do it the cheap way.
                      Get a strip of paper, put it on the balancer on your TC, mark the important marks.
                      Transfer and tape that marked paper strip to your 351 balancer, lining it up once you know where TDC is.
                      Hmm! I like this idea! I think that'll be the ticket for me, thanks Vic!

                      Originally posted by 87gtVIC View Post

                      Yes. If the timing marks existed.

                      I love using the paint marker for them. Can mark different lengths to indicate different degrees to boot.

                      I am perplexed how there are no timing marks.

                      Run the engine and get your scotch brite on that balancer! Should find something. So strange.
                      Oh man, if it wasn't for that keyway on the balancer, I think I'd feel more comfortable running the engine to help with the balancer scuffing..

                      Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
                      also haven't seen one with no marks but have seen plenty that were good and crusty to the point that it was very hard to find them without spending some time with a wire brush and a breaker bar.

                      If you can find TDC and mark that, the rest doesn't matter. Just need a timing light that you can dial the advance on. Set the light to 10 BTDC and align the TDC mark to the pointer. I have a dumb light that lacks this but apparently they aren't real expensive.

                      tdc is tdc, doesn't matter what stroke its on.

                      Yeah, this probably has marks. It isn't TOO crusty, but it was getting late and so I was losing daylight fast. I've got a dummy light too, I have no idea how a light with settings works. Itching to work on the damn thing, but life is getting in the way. At least it's registered and insured now.
                      1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                      1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Fancy ones exist but there is a more basic one with just a simple dial. If you're aiming for 10 BTDC, you set the dial to 10 BTDC and use the TDC mark. When the mark is on the pointer, its at 10 BTDC. Those are useful for checking distributor advance curves. Hold the throttle and turn the dial to see how much it moved from idle.

                        I've used them but never had any special need to own one. been using the same basic Craftsman one for like 25 years now.
                        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                        Originally posted by phayzer5
                        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ah, I kind of understand. We probably have the same timing light. My unit is all chrome with an old Crapsman logo on it. I like it, gets the job done.

                          Dad came over yesterday and was all, "Oh whoa, a 351?" "Windsor or Cleveland?" "My Cougar had one of those. Start it up, let me hear it run." Sure, I said. Sure enough, it doesn't like to start now. Still idles just fine when warm. So in addition to needing to connect my scan tool to it, see what that shows me and check fuel pressure, I am suspecting the ECM is contributing to the running issues. Probably the EGR too- It runs really rough right around ~1,400-1,600rpm (always has...). Need to check all of this, but life has me obligated into other things. So seeing as I can't wrench on it, my mind is brainstorming stuff to look into...

                          About that ECM. How do I check the codes on the one in the truck to identify it? I was researching and that info suggests not just any 351/E4OD computer will do, Ford had many different "calibrations" and so you need to find a suitable one. Meaning the one with the same calibration code as found in the door jamb of the truck. Well, that's a problem for me as I really have no clue where this engine came from. I suspect it was harvested from an '88. However, in the past I discovered my Snap-Off MT2500 will not communicate (aside from the basics) with pre '92 trucks. Ford changed something for '92, which allowed my MT2500 to see live data. So I'm thinking I'd like to go with a '92 and up computer to keep that functionality. Could anyone please take a look at this computer?: https://www.ebay.com/itm/326106793600?itmmeta=01HWSZ2KC8Q9T0MWZSS8B84WC8&ha sh=item4bed7ac680:g:9OUAAOSwC8FmLpBA&itmprp=enc%3A AQAJAAAA4NKvjIb45ChK9JbCWnacNrUy7M1ap3GHqN5FLxLKPg YnJyXsIDTh%2FaK2xModhIT%2FfqsWYPgmNi4m0Qo2E0CpmYMq jg3Ac7v3PjmHAH1H7ef796f0fSowJJ8KvO4ATwiHE%2FyN7fMV HD4lFuZeULl2Yz7D3eNzluxkWSnLWRFb%2F5Sh07ASjXorSkNp %2Fyc3yATk%2F09%2Flnkq7AoVBdV8RUy%2FyjsMApSYd%2Fb5 %2BGfoNuEY6Mi9B1wuCEPbXil%2FMQCv%2BG4I5ZtqETdb5oyR 0p%2Bkh%2F9Jk959IWFb%2Bc95IB%2BqX0OkgnVY%7Ctkp%3AB k9SR5q2ir_mYw

                          I'd like to know if it's for a 351/E4OD and just what it came out of. Lastly, if anyone is kind enough to provide calibration codes that would most likely work with my truck, I'll keep those in mind while I'm searching through eBay or treasure yards.
                          1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
                          1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Can't help you on the specifics. I would try to match the truck year, the new engine displacement, and trans and I bet it works.
                            Pretty sure a 93 trucks would still be batch fire 302/351. If one is batch and the other is SEFI, you might have a wiring problem if you go to the other ECM. Not familiar with that application enough to know for certain.
                            1990 Country Squire - under restoration
                            1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - daily beater

                            GMN Box Panther History
                            Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
                            Box Panther Production Numbers

                            Comment


                              #15
                              On the timing marks:
                              I couldn't see them on my 91 MGM while playing with it recently. I figured I'd hit the balancer with sandpaper while the engine was idling, and was surprised when the marks never appeared.

                              It took a wire brush by hand to make them pop out, because they were full of the same mixture of surface rust and road dirt that covered the rest of it.

                              Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS | 88 TC | 91 GM
                              Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 92 Jaaag | 05 Focus
                              Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                              | Junkyards

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