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CFI horsepower Question, And a little Horsepower Info

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    CFI horsepower Question, And a little Horsepower Info

    I’m in the midst of researching Horsepower and Torque ratings for all Box Panthers. I have stumbled upon a little bit of weird information. It seems that during the CFI years, there may have been an optional CFI 5.0L engine with more horsepower. But my two sources somewhat conflict each other. Here is what my sources say:

    Source #1 – Chilton’s Auto Repair Manual
    This is where I first got a little suspicious. Chilton doesn’t list any optional 5.0L engines. As I was writing down the figures, 1983 had 130 horsepower, 1984 had 140 horsepower, and 1985 had 165 horsepower. Whoa! 165 horsepower… what’s so special about 1985, other than the roller cam compatibility? I figured it had to be a misprint, they may have been using the figures from the LTD LX (Fox Platform). The VIN was F, what the Boxes have. This was not the HO engine numbers.

    Source #2 – The Encyclopedia of American Cars
    I first check 1985 values… 140 horsepower, which must be right, I’m thinking. I’m running on down my list, starting from the beginning checking these figures against the other book. Then, 1983. The horsepower for 1983 5.0L is listed at 130, same as the other book. And then an optional 5.0L, available across the Panther Line only (CV, GM, TC, Mark VI) with 15 more horsepower. And optional 5.0? I go on to 1984. Optional 5.0L CFI with 155 horsepower, standard on Wagons. And the same thing for 1985.

    So is there any truth to this optional extra horsepower CFI thing? Anyone heard of it before? What’s the difference in the lo-po CFI 5.0 and the mo-po (more power) CFI 5.0? Maybe CFI is better than SEFI…

    A couple of other interesting tidbits that cross-checked correctly:
    -1990-1991 cars with the 5.0 and dual exhaust have a little extra oomph than their single exhaust counterparts. Single exhaust figures are 150hp@3200, 270ft.lbs.@ 2000. Dual exhaust figures are 160hp@3400, 280ft.lbs.@2200.

    -The box with the most torque wasn’t the later model 351W. It was the 1979 351W non-CA emissions version. It pumped out 286 ft.lbs. at tractor-like 1400 rpm! Shoot, you’d be doing a burnout with just the high-idle on! I bet one of those things are a beast to drive in the rain. And BTW, it only let out 142 smogged ponies. And BTW X2, the CA version dropped almost 30 ft.lbs and pushed a whopping 138 horsepower.

    - The box with the least power was the 1981 4.2L (255 cid). Based on a de-bored 302 block. Numbers were 120hp@3400, 205hp@2600. Thankfully, 1982 was the last year of the 255, but it did pick up and extra 2 horsepower and 4 ft. lbs that year.
    1990 Country Squire - under restoration
    1988 Crown Vic LTD Wagon - daily beater

    GMN Box Panther History
    Box Panther Horsepower and Torque Ratings
    Box Panther Production Numbers

    #2
    Originally posted by Tiggie
    Maybe CFI is better than SEFI…

    Blasphemy! lol


    Chiltons has been know for errors in their repair books, (I have one that has an A/C schematic with everything mislabled lol) so I don't know if that 160 HP CFI is correct or not.
    Pebbles-1968 Ford F250
    Pile of Junk! An Electronics Project Site (To get wet by)<---Clicky! NEW STUFF!!!!

    Comment


      #3
      The torque numbers for the 302, especially the Crown Vic cam and heads, shifted the peak torque down to really low RPM's, like a dump truck. You'll notice the behavior of the shifting keeps you in the low RPM range as it is.

      Typically I've used the following numbers for HP ratings, with torque being just as close.

      CFI, single exhaust - 140 HP (crank...horrible, yes)
      EFI, single exhaust - 150 HP, 260 ft-lb torque
      EFI, dual exhaust - 160 HP, 280 ft-lb torque

      I am not sure on the VV 351 numbers, but I believe stock was 170 HP, dual exhaust standard.

      Don't shoot me...this is what I've read, experienced, etc. Your opinion may vary.

      ~Adam

      '85 2-Door Crown Victoria
      302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Dual Plane Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Transgo Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar TV/Throttle Cable Setup, B&M Torq Master 2000 RPM Stall Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Shorty Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe (no converters), Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, Side-exit Exhaust w/ Chromed 2.5" Tips, '02 PI F/R Shocks, Cut 2004 PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" SAP Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Michelin Pilot A/S Tires, Cold A/C, Cruise Control, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff.
      '04 Crown Victoria LX Sport, '02 Jeep Liberty
      '83 Suzuki GS 1100E Motorcycle[/color]

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Tiggie
        ...
        -The box with the most torque wasn’t the later model 351W. It was the 1979 351W non-CA emissions version. It pumped out 286 ft.lbs. at tractor-like 1400 rpm! Shoot, you’d be doing a burnout with just the high-idle on! I bet one of those things are a beast to drive in the rain. And BTW, it only let out 142 smogged ponies. And BTW X2, the CA version dropped almost 30 ft.lbs and pushed a whopping 138 horsepower.
        ..

        Thats all well and good, but that was a C4 car, which means if it was lucky it got a gear in the 2.5X area.
        http://secondhandracing.com/Home.aspx
        http://secondhandradio.com/

        R.I.P. Jason P Harrill 6-12-06

        http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=5634

        Comment


          #5
          I'll also chime in that my second box, a bone stock '85 2-door CFI car, had a 0-60 time of something like 15 seconds. I'm doubting it had 165 hp.

          '85 2-Door Crown Victoria
          302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Dual Plane Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Transgo Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar TV/Throttle Cable Setup, B&M Torq Master 2000 RPM Stall Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Shorty Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe (no converters), Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, Side-exit Exhaust w/ Chromed 2.5" Tips, '02 PI F/R Shocks, Cut 2004 PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" SAP Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Michelin Pilot A/S Tires, Cold A/C, Cruise Control, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff.
          '04 Crown Victoria LX Sport, '02 Jeep Liberty
          '83 Suzuki GS 1100E Motorcycle[/color]

          Comment


            #6
            Duece, I swear I can't read GMN at work because of your avitar, lol.

            '85 2-Door Crown Victoria
            302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Dual Plane Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Transgo Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar TV/Throttle Cable Setup, B&M Torq Master 2000 RPM Stall Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Shorty Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe (no converters), Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, Side-exit Exhaust w/ Chromed 2.5" Tips, '02 PI F/R Shocks, Cut 2004 PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" SAP Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Michelin Pilot A/S Tires, Cold A/C, Cruise Control, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff.
            '04 Crown Victoria LX Sport, '02 Jeep Liberty
            '83 Suzuki GS 1100E Motorcycle[/color]

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by AOD
              Duece, I swear I can't read GMN at work because of your avitar, lol.
              You should have seen what i had when GMN first started.
              http://secondhandracing.com/Home.aspx
              http://secondhandradio.com/

              R.I.P. Jason P Harrill 6-12-06

              http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?t=5634

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AOD
                EFI, single exhaust - 150 HP, 260 ft-lb torque
                EFI, dual exhaust - 160 HP, 280 ft-lb torque
                Woah, I can add 10HP and 20 ft-lb of torque just by junking my stock single exhaust and putting on a stock dual exhaust from a junkyard? I wish I had known sooner, my single exhaust is teh suck. Maybe when I get a beater i'll put the single exhaust on it and see how it does. Maybe it won't restrict the beaters exhaust like it does my Vic, it'll be a redneck style cat-back.
                88 Town Car (wrecked, for sale)
                Walker OEM duals with muffler deletes

                Comment


                  #9
                  Anything but 'asspacks and your dual exhaust will net a slight TQ and HP increase, plus exhaust note if you dig that.

                  In contrast, my bone stock '95 LX CV (/w tow package) has it's original dual exhaust on it still. Super quiet, and super nice.

                  ~Adam

                  '85 2-Door Crown Victoria
                  302 HO, -0.022" E7 Heads, Weiand Dual Plane Intake, Edelbrock 1406 Carb, Mechanical Fuel Pump, HEI Distributor, 180* T-stat, Transgo Shift Kit, HO Governor, Lokar TV/Throttle Cable Setup, B&M Torq Master 2000 RPM Stall Converter, FRPP Trans Cooler, Mustang Shorty Headers, 2.25" Dual Exhaust, Flowtech H-pipe (no converters), Hooker AeroChamber Mufflers, Side-exit Exhaust w/ Chromed 2.5" Tips, '02 PI F/R Shocks, Cut 2004 PI Front Springs in the Rear, PI Rear Sway Bar, 17" SAP Wheels, 245/50/Z17 Michelin Pilot A/S Tires, Cold A/C, Cruise Control, 4.10 Rear End Gears, Trac Lok Diff.
                  '04 Crown Victoria LX Sport, '02 Jeep Liberty
                  '83 Suzuki GS 1100E Motorcycle[/color]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I've said it once and I'll say it again, my butt test says my 85 wagon has more power than my 89. And the 85 has double the miles. Maybe it's the gearing I'm gonna check to see what the rear end is in the 85.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      nates is an 85 and when he had CFI still he said it was pretty damn fast.

                      Mines nothing special, but I have an 86' block and heads. long story....
                      Pete ::::>>> resident LED addict and CFI defector LED bulb replacements
                      'LTD HPP' 85 Vic (my rusty baby) '06 Honda Reflex 250cc 'Baileys' 91 Vic (faded cream puff) ClifFord 'ODB' 88 P72 (SOLD) '77 LTDII (RIP)
                      sigpic
                      85HPP's most noteworthy mods: CFI to SEFI conversion w/HO upperstuff headers & flowmasters P71 airbox Towncar seats LED dash light-show center console w/5 gauge package LED 3rd brake light 3G alternator mini starter washer/coolant bottle upgrade Towncar power trunk pull underhood fuse/relay box 16" HPP wheels - police swaybars w/poly rubbers - budget Alpine driven 10 speaker stereo

                      Comment


                        #12
                        i used to work on a 85 gm that was a runner.......it would light the tire from a standstill, and the customer claimed that after i gave it the scott treatment he was getting 26 mpg highway.......shows you that a little maintenance goes a long way.........yes nates car did run well with the headers and duals on the cfi motor, but now with the 351 it's a monster, but not as easy at the gas pump........on his way home from skippyville, he got 15.2 mpg, and i'm sure he had his foot into it lol........i know i did lol
                        scott

                        1986 lincoln towncar signature series. 5.0 HO with thumper performance ported e7 heads, 1.7 roller rockers, warm air intake, 65mm throttle body, 1/2" intake spacer, ported intakes, 3.73 rear with trac lock, 98-02 front brake conversion, 92-97 rear disc conversion, 1" rear swaybar, 1 3/16" front swaybar, 16" wheels and tires, loud ass stereo system, badass cb, best time to date 15.94 at 87 mph. lots of mods in the works 221.8 rwhp 278 rwt
                        2006 Lincoln Town Car Signature. Stock for now
                        1989 Ford F-250 4x4 much much more to come, sefi converted so far.
                        1986 Toyota pickup with LSC wheels and 225/60/16 tires.
                        2008 Hyundai Elantra future Revcon toad
                        1987 TriBurner and 1986 Alaska stokers keeping me warm. (and some pesky oil heat)

                        please be patient, rebuilding an empire!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          At any rate, the h/p numbers for these engines are poopy. Dats why HO conversion = teh win
                          Chris - A 20th Century Man \m/ ^.^ \m/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by 88Vic
                            Woah, I can add 10HP and 20 ft-lb of torque just by junking my stock single exhaust and putting on a stock dual exhaust from a junkyard? I wish I had known sooner, my single exhaust is teh suck. Maybe when I get a beater i'll put the single exhaust on it and see how it does. Maybe it won't restrict the beaters exhaust like it does my Vic, it'll be a redneck style cat-back.

                            And if you put better mufflers it'll be even more. Stock mufflers are horrid.
                            Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

                            Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by mrltd
                              And if you put better mufflers it'll be even more. Stock mufflers are horrid.
                              Yeah, they are. I don't care about a little noise if it means more power. The mufflers and cats are what hold back a car's true power.
                              88 Town Car (wrecked, for sale)
                              Walker OEM duals with muffler deletes

                              Comment

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