1978 Caprice, the new on-going project! (Yes, I'm still alive!)

[gadget73]

400's are interesting, but they are the most bitchy things about cooling systems. They tend to run hot anyway, and they absolutely dislike it. If you can keep one cool they go like hell though.

[murphmobile2]

We decided to throw a mild cam in too. Late 70's cams were pretty soft, so we're going to put a Summit K1103 cam in. Mild enough for a fairly stock engine, but an upgrade over factory specs. At $110 shipped with lifters, not a bad deal at all.

But... He had just left to go pick up the engine, and pulled out infront of someone that was speeding in a Ford Fusion. Let's just say he needs a new front end now. Fortunately everyone was okay!



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[DerekTheGreat]

Another GMT400 bites the dust... Please don't tell me you're putting a cam in a 305... Just say no to crak Murph! I was dumb enough to put heads on mine but I won't cross the cam line with mine.

[murphmobile2]

Too late, lol. Picked up a Cloyes double roller too. I only have about $450 - $500 wrapped up in this engine too... So that's a win. That's less than what people were asking for 350's that had been sitting for 10+ years, ones that were pulled because they were worn out, and for ones that they openly admitted were needing a rebuild.





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[Brown_Muscle]

May I ask why the 305 is so hated here? Sounds like you are getting a great deal, and can breathe some more life into it. What kind of power figures are you looking at making with this mild concoction? I agree 500X over those rear gears have to go lol. Looking great overall though, been following but not commenting until now.

[88Vic]

Everyone who doesn't like the 305 should drive a car or truck with the 4.3 V6, they'll like the 305 after that. I've driven a Vortec V6 pickup just like mine, slower than my TBI 305. Also driven a TBI V6, half ton as well, and it's a turd. The 305 is closer to the 350 in terms of power than the 4.3 V6 is to the 305.

That said, the 4.3 V6 is a great engine, it'll last as long as a 305/350 will but it's very slow. At my old job we had an 03 rclb 4.3/2wd/auto, base model work truck. It wasn't bad, good to take on a road trip but you had to keep a light foot when trying to pick up speed on the highway, otherwise it'd always want to shift to 3rd. Felt like it needed more gear, it was at just over 2000 at 75mph but you couldn't always go that fast.

[murphmobile2]

No idea what kind of numbers I'll be looking at, it won't be super inpressive, but that's okay. This engine stock is 145 hp, so anything can help!

I did find the rear end I want too, but... It's $550 and it's not exactly affordable right now haha. When I get a new junkyard rear end I'm going through it completely too. So that's even more money! Some day, some day... For now I'll be happy feeling that it'll be reliable.

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[DerekTheGreat]

305's are about as cool as the Pontiac 301, if you're into boat anchors. No one likes the 305 because while it has the same stroke as a 350, it's got a smaller bore. So any parts you throw at a 305 you'll find much better gains on a 350, better bang for your buck. The 4.3 has same bore and stroke as 350, many parts are even interchangeable, same deal with the 305 so save that cam for the 350.

I have a 305, a 1989 TBI. It sucked ass stock and still sucks ass now but I've spent over $2k on it. Has full MSD ignition, Trickflow cylinder heads, Edelbrock TBI performer intake and a posi 3.23 gear set out back. People say the Fireturd is fast but those people have never experienced an LS1 powered F-body car either. I have another friend who has an '88 GMC 1500 with the 4.3, good little engine. I'd rather have that over an oil chuggin' 305, slow but gets the job done. Actually, I've experienced all of the lopo GM engines of the 80's; 4.3, 305, 350 and now 454. 454 blows all of those turds away in stock trim.

[TecNickal]

I drove An 80LeSabre with the 301. Beautiful low mileage car. A Vulcan powered Taurus wagon was a rocket compared to it. I think a 305 or 307 was slower in the LeSabre than the 301

[gadget73]

Having driven a full size C1500 that had a 4.3, and the same truck after putting in a 305, the only thing I can say is the 305 sounded better. It didn't have any more power around town. It would pass a little better. Wasn't better or worse on fuel either. Its not so much that its a hated engine, its just very mediocre in stock form. Its also exactly the same effort and parts to work on as a 350 and you get more bang for your buck out of one of those.

Surprises me that 350's aren't still so common you could trip over the damn things. They were used in tons of stuff through the late 1990's. The 87+ ones are better out of the box than the old ones were too. Not that they are total fireballs, but the stock heads and roller cam was definitely a step up from the old, and those dumb ass perimeter bolt valve covers that always leak finally went away in late 80s. The mid 90s onward Vortec heads were a nice improvement too.

Everybody's old tech engines sucked balls from the mid 70's through the late 80s. Ever driven a boxy Dodge pickup from that era with a 318? You can nail the gas and read a book before it gets up to passing speed.

I probably don't hate Chevys more than most here. I own one for one thing, but I spent a whole lot of hours wrenching on them when I was doing the boat mechanic gig. The vast bulk of marine engines are smallblock and big block Chevy. They're a solid engine, and in marine form they were never subject to all the smog bullshit so they were never as feeble as they were in cars. The power ratings went up nicely in the 90s though. A mid 80s 350 might have been rated 250 hp, the same engine by the mid 90s with the Vortec heads was rated 300-310.

[murphmobile2]

The 350's are plentiful in my area, but even the worn out engines people think are worth gold. It's ridiculous.

I'm not trying to make a performance engine anyways, I'm just improving on what I have. I really need to get the suspension squared away before I start building a real nice engine, I just need it to run and drive first, lol.

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[88Vic]

I have another friend who has an '88 GMC 1500 with the 4.3, good little engine. I'd rather have that over an oil chuggin' 305, slow but gets the job done.

My 305 doesn't chug oil, runs just fine. I drove a TBI 4.3 just like mine, only I have a longbed and the truck I drove was a stepside (shortbed) and it was slower, same axle ratio. It's not a massive difference, but the 4.3 is to the 305 what the 305 is to the 350, all not a big difference. I've driven a TBI 350 in an extended cab shortbed but it had 4.10 gears so I couldn't compare it to my truck with 3.42 gears accurately. I have a 350 in my Suburban but I can't compare the 2 with all the differences.

[DerekTheGreat]

My 305 doesn't chug oil, runs just fine. I drove a TBI 4.3 just like mine, only I have a longbed and the truck I drove was a stepside (shortbed) and it was slower, same axle ratio. It's not a massive difference, but the 4.3 is to the 305 what the 305 is to the 350, all not a big difference. I've driven a TBI 350 in an extended cab shortbed but it had 4.10 gears so I couldn't compare it to my truck with 3.42 gears accurately. I have a 350 in my Suburban but I can't compare the 2 with all the differences.

What year 305? Vortech series? Those have different heads so course you wouldn't have that problem. Just ask anyone who had one of those turds from 86-92. My pops took the original owner of the Firebird to court over it and turns out it GM was aware of it. The 4.3 is not at all what a 305 is to a 350. In an earlier post I touched on the differences and why people would build up a 350 and not a 305. The information is out there within the GM communities. I once had ideas of building a 305 but that was before I got schooled myself. Why GM even made the 305 doesn't make sense, they could've simply offered various tune levels for the 350, not a whole other engine. However, if you're just going to tool around in it then by all means. But to me, I wouldn't own another one unless I was going to use it in a demo derby car.

[88Vic]

Mine's a 95, last year for TBI, no Vortec heads (Vortech makes centri superchargers btw). And the 4.3 is to the 305 what the 305 is to the 350, in terms of power. I'm well aware the 4.3 is a 350 minus the number 3 and 6 cylinders.

We can argue forever but unless you're willing to drop tons of money, both the 4.3 and 305 are a turd in stock form in half ton trucks and full size cars.

[DerekTheGreat]

...Just ask anyone who had one of those turds from 86-92... ...Why GM even made the 305 doesn't make sense, they could've simply offered various tune levels for the 350, not a whole other engine. However, if you're just going to tool around in it then by all means. But to me, I wouldn't own another one unless I was going to use it in a demo derby car.

I've never known someone that has had a 305 that didn't smoke or use oil, so I don't believe you when you say yours does not. Perhaps the seals and/or other internal things may have changed by then though. The way I see it is a bad rep is a bad rep, so why take your chances with one? Vortech? LoL so I made a typo, no need to get trivial on me. I'd much rather have a 4.3 over a 2.8 or 3.1 or a 5.0 305. This is coming from a guy who owns a 305 and who has wasted money on it.