My 1983 Continental Mark VI!

[VicCrownVic]

When you bought the truck was it advertised as not running? I've known some people who got good deals on non running vehicles only to find it was a simple fix. One was missing plug wires, another was a locked up A/C compressor, and a third that I recall was a locked up water pump. The missing plug wires were on a very very clean low mileage '92 Mustang GT that was picked up for under $1000 about 7 or 8 years ago by a buddy of mine. He bought it from the original owners widow who just wanted it gone, it was one of the very few stock fox body's I've ever seen.

It was. The CL ad said that he parked it and couldn't get it started. Derek might remember better than I, but I think it sat in the same spot for a couple of months and the guy just couldn't get it started. He said that he had tried and that it would turn over but not fire. We were figuring that we could throw something easy at it like a dizzy or something (stuff that we both have laying around). We dolly towed it back to Derek's place and took us very little time to get it running. It was HILARIOUS when it fired right up! The guy Derek bought it from didn't seem to know much if anything about cars or anything mechanical.

[mercurygm88]

It was. The CL ad said that he parked it and couldn't get it started. Derek might remember better than I, but I think it sat in the same spot for a couple of months and the guy just couldn't get it started. He said that he had tried and that it would turn over but not fire. We were figuring that we could throw something easy at it like a dizzy or something (stuff that we both have laying around). We dolly towed it back to Derek's place and took us very little time to get it running. It was HILARIOUS when it fired right up! The guy Derek bought it from didn't seem to know much if anything about cars or anything mechanical.

I believe this mainly because in the month and a half that I’ve been selling automotive parts I’ve come across an amazing number of folks buying parts they think they’re going to change themselves yet they don’t seem to have a clue.

90% of my customers don’t know what engine is in their vehicle, 50-60% don’t know the year, and about 15% don’t even know the make or model. Oh and we can run the plates, but the Ohio BMV is years behind so your Ford Focus could come up as the Chevy Silverado you sold five years ago.

Don’t even get me started on these stupid integrated thermostats and vehicles that have 3 or 4 sizes of brake pad and/or rotor that do not correlate to engine size or trim level. Even the VIN doesn’t help you, you have to measure the rotor.

[mercurygm88]

Hmm...... I might be getting somewhere. Just after my last post I ran into town to grab some stuff from the gas station. The car didn't want to start, I pulled the key out of the ignition and put it back in and removed it several times, tried it again and it fired right up. Coincidence? Anything in the lock cylinder that could potentially cause this no start issue? I realize this is not a chipped key or anything, I don't even know if there are electrical contacts for the lock cylinder. I notice you have to get the key angled just right or it only goes about halfway in. Perhaps something with the ignition switch?

[DerekTheGreat]

When you bought the truck was it advertised as not running? I've known some people who got good deals on non running vehicles only to find it was a simple fix...

It was. The CL ad said that he parked it and couldn't get it started. Derek might remember better than I, but I think it sat in the same spot for a couple of months and the guy just couldn't get it started. He said that he had tried and that it would turn over but not fire. We were figuring that we could throw something easy at it like a dizzy or something (stuff that we both have laying around). We dolly towed it back to Derek's place and took us very little time to get it running. It was HILARIOUS when it fired right up! The guy Derek bought it from didn't seem to know much if anything about cars or anything mechanical.

Yeah, the dude said he moved it one day, ran fine that day but he couldn't get it to start several months later. Like Vic said, we got there and figured it would be an easy fix and so we just wanted to get it out of there. I usually poke around and spend lots of time crawling around but the price was right so I just verified it wasn't actually engine swapped with some carbureted junk. Even came with a newish battery! Vic and I had the thing running within five minutes of getting it in my driveway- it sat & idled great, we laughed our asses off. Oil & filter looked like it hadn't been changed in 10+ years although it didn't appear to be using any. I seriously contemplated keeping it and throwing some elbow grease at it or pulling the engine & trans for a cleaner truck. Trashed those ideas when I realized I could triple my money. I think that is the first vehicle I sold at a profit..

I've never heard of more than 2 pumps on an EFI system. Lift in the tank, high pressure on the frame rail is the usual config for multiples. I don't think the Panther cars ever had more than 1 but maybe the very earliest ones did have two. I don't see the mechanical pump being a thing though, not a chance it would handle the pressure or volume involved in a return style fuel system.

The trucks were more common with twin pumps but I think that was more about the dual tank option. Each tank had a low pressure lift pump that fed into the switching valve, then the high pressure went between the valve and the engine. Much easier to switch ~6 psi than ~35 psi. They probably kept it on single tank models just because it was less effort to use a lot of the same wiring, plumbing, and parts.

ok, two lift pumps and a pressure pump is 3 pumps, but only 2 work at a time, so you know what I mean...

Yeah I thought I remembered HisRoyalGhostliness saying the lift pump thing in F-series trucks went away in '89- but this Canadian model truck had it so I think it was actually '90 and up trucks which did away with them. But after looking up pictures of the pump on the frame rail, the diagrams it corresponded to were of the dual/triple pump set up variety. This was a single tank truck. I don't like F series trucks with just one gas tank so one of the factors which pushed me to sell it. Such a cool option, especially trucks without lift pumps.

I believe this mainly because in the month and a half that I’ve been selling automotive parts I’ve come across an amazing number of folks buying parts they think they’re going to change themselves yet they don’t seem to have a clue.

90% of my customers don’t know what engine is in their vehicle, 50-60% don’t know the year, and about 15% don’t even know the make or model. Oh and we can run the plates, but the Ohio BMV is years behind so your Ford Focus could come up as the Chevy Silverado you sold five years ago.

Don’t even get me started on these stupid integrated thermostats and vehicles that have 3 or 4 sizes of brake pad and/or rotor that do not correlate to engine size or trim level. Even the VIN doesn’t help you, you have to measure the rotor.

Wow.. WTF?? Hell, I know a little about cars and even I get intimated to the point I know I won't be touching something. I'd never try to fix something engine related if I couldn't even identify which engine the car had, let alone it's year.

Hmm...... I might be getting somewhere. Just after my last post I ran into town to grab some stuff from the gas station. The car didn't want to start, I pulled the key out of the ignition and put it back in and removed it several times, tried it again and it fired right up. Coincidence? Anything in the lock cylinder that could potentially cause this no start issue? I realize this is not a chipped key or anything, I don't even know if there are electrical contacts for the lock cylinder. I notice you have to get the key angled just right or it only goes about halfway in. Perhaps something with the ignition switch?

I've read around here that ignition switches can cause issues like that...

[atlantic3000]

on the issue of the fuel injection not pumping fuel randomly.
try removing all the fusible link eyelets on the starter relay on the passenger fender. sand them until they are shiny and clean and put them back.
when they are oxidized or rusty or loose they can cause intermittant loss of fuel.
also there is a small ground wire on battery. make sure that is good as well. that is ground for fuel system.

[gadget73]

The high idle is way less advanced than a solenoid. Its a heat choke like carbs use. When cold, pumping the pedal lets the high idle cam drop into position. It has a heater and a vacuum pull-off to lift it back out as it warms up. I suppose if the TPS were glitchy it might be that it lands in a dead spot in the high idle position.

[mercurygm88]

I'm finally getting somewhere, I don't know where but somewhere. It's a random no spark event, but only when starting, it never stalls once it's running. I went to go to work today and no start, I futzed around for 5 minutes and nothing nada, zippo, zilch. So I drove the Grand Marquis. Came home at 9:15 tonight stuck the spark tester on it and cranked it, no spark. I futzed around some more squeezing electrical connectors under the hood and swearing, I was about to call it quits but decided to crank it one more time and voila! It fired right up. I took it on about a 20 minute drive to charge the battery back up and make sure all was well. I still haven't found the wiring to the damn crank position sensor, I assume I'll have to crawl under the beast for that.

Me thinks the previous owner knew this and it's how I got it so cheap, even though it really is true that he only had it a month.

[Mainemantom]

Sounds like the simular type problem I have with my 83 MGM. In addition, mine quits when driving down the road whenever it feels like.
Find a really good auto electrical mechanic.

[DerekTheGreat]

The high idle is way less advanced than a solenoid. Its a heat choke like carbs use. When cold, pumping the pedal lets the high idle cam drop into position. It has a heater and a vacuum pull-off to lift it back out as it warms up. I suppose if the TPS were glitchy it might be that it lands in a dead spot in the high idle position.

This.

My '85 wouldn't restart when hot if you didn't touch the skinny pedal somewhat. Found an owners manual and that is apparently normal operating procedure.

[Arquemann]

Dunno if I'm a little late to the party, but the scrader valve for checking the fuel pressure is right there:


Also yes, the choke/high idle system needlessly complicated and dumb as a box of rocks. Which makes it kinda fun.

[mercurygm88]

Dunno if I'm a little late to the party, but the scrader valve for checking the fuel pressure is right there:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]56705[/ATTACH]

Also yes, the choke/high idle system needlessly complicated and dumb as a box of rocks. Which makes it kinda fun.

I found the schrader valve, just before I found out my issue isn't fuel related.

[mercurygm88]

Sounds like the simular type problem I have with my 83 MGM. In addition, mine quits when driving down the road whenever it feels like.
Find a really good auto electrical mechanic.

Unfortunately every mechanic within 30 miles of me charges at least $100 an hour and is for the most part untrustworthy. Most if not all of them cannot work on anything pre OBD II. I just don't have the kind of money for that or trust them.

My guess is that it's one single component that is slowly failing, I just have to figure out what it is. I'm leaning towards the Duraspark module at this point. The one in the car is from NAPA and looks fairly old, I always re-seat the connectors on that module when it does this and it usually starts right up after that.

[gadget73]

well, its Duraspark so pretend the computer doesn't exist. Its basically a 1970s F100, the only real difference is the ignition pickup is down on the crankshaft instead of in the distributor. Same signals though.

Verify key-on power to the coil and cranking power to the coil. They feed from different circuits, key-on runs through the resistor wire from somewhere in the car, cranking power is usually off the I terminal of the starter solenoid and bypasses the ignition switch and resistor wire. with most Fords, the key-on power goes dead when cranking so that power feed off the starter solenoid is essential for getting them lit off. I wouldn't be half surprised if its the starter relay thats really at fault.

if its not off the I terminal, it probably has a diode and feeds off the signal going to the S terminal. I don't have an '83 EVTM to know what they did, but either way it needs power in both key positions.

[mercurygm88]

Ok so good news and bad. Pretty sure it's the ignition module, duraspark module, whatever you want to call it. Twice today I encountered the no spark issue, both times squeezing the connectors on the module got it going. So hey I work at a parts store I'll just order one, two different versions were available. One has a 2 pin and a 3 pin plug, the other is 2 and a 4, so 5 or 6 pins total. I checked mine out and it was the 5. So I ordered it, our stupid distribution center sent the 6 pin which is a totally different part number. So I had to send it back and order the 5 pin which won't be in until Monday.

I swear about half the shit I order whether for myself or for customers either doesn't come in on time or comes in wrong.

[sly]

Might try cleaning the contacts on yours as-is. May be oxidized and just need a good clean.