kishy's 1984 Town Car

[kishy]

...
I took a look at the boot for the Moog ball joint and found a number molded into it: 6389L.
RockAuto doesn't list it as a part, which usually means it doesn't exist.
Interestingly though, someone seems to be making a clone of it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/302208635577
They list is as fitting K8259 which, among other things, does fit box Panthers. My ball joint is a K8685 for 95-02. Seems possible it likely will fit so I'll take a gamble on a couple and report back.

...
I'd take that gamble on the ball joint boot, if they don't fit in this case you probably have something in the fleet that could someday need them. You certainly know people around here that have such vehicles in their fleet.

Boots.



More angles/comparisons: https://imgur.com/a/moog-ball-joint-boots-9mXozZj

Exactly the same. So while it wouldn't make sense for a $5 ball joint, it sort of does for a $30 ball joint. Not to mention the value of having boots on-hand if you know you're going to destroy them separating a ball joint that's otherwise good.

Some day this week I'll dig back into this. Scope creep and remembering the old to-do items is definitely happening, I dug out all my supplies for doing dew wipes and window channel which are sorely needed.

[Arquemann]

Would the factory balljoints have similar dimensions for those boots to fit? The joints on mine are all surprisingly tight, but all the boots are cracked and torn. I kinda need to replace every boot in the front suspension, and it'd certainly be handy to know what fits beforehand.

I don't think the earlier mopar A-bodies much at all with the later F/J/M bodies. The Aspens and such have a funky dual transverse torsion bar front suspension. It used to be a somewhat straightforward way to modernize an older car to IFS and disc brakes. Though it died off because the parts availability for the suspensions got poor.

A friend of mine has an '80 Aspen as a fair weather daily driver. I like the humble and modest look of the square headlight Aspen/Volare, but that's about the only positive thing I have to say. They feel very boaty, cramped inside, interior feels cheap and plain. Build quality is shoddy, they rust out incredibly badly. And alot of them have the hateful Slant Six.

[DerekTheGreat]

No, why?


82 New Yorker was an M body car, but it got re-named the Fifth Ave...

Your post seemed out of place. I read a few posts before it and didn't realize the conversation had switched to MoPar stuff. Guess I'm the small child who wandered into the room without any frame of reference and commented.

I will say the full size RWD MoPar luxury offerings are dead last on my list. Everything about them looks poorly executed and archaic, tree speed autos and carburetors while the other guys were doing it right. Except for Cadillac, which started with EFI, but executed it poorly, went to the turd 307 but then got their act back together in 1990 by offering the truck TBI engines as options.

[VicCrownVic]

Nice info on the boots.
Ask Derek how many times I've said something along the lines of "I think that will work" only for him to find it indeed does not work.

[gadget73]

Your post seemed out of place. I read a few posts before it and didn't realize the conversation had switched to MoPar stuff. Guess I'm the small child who wandered into the room without any frame of reference and commented.

I will say the full size RWD MoPar luxury offerings are dead last on my list. Everything about them looks poorly executed and archaic, tree speed autos and carburetors while the other guys were doing it right. Except for Cadillac, which started with EFI, but executed it poorly, went to the turd 307 but then got their act back together in 1990 by offering the truck TBI engines as options.

yea I forgot to quote it to add context.

Keep in mind the M body was designed in an era when Chrysler had very limited money and was putting everything they had into the K car. It was essentially a facelift on the outgoing Aspen just to keep something in production for the RWD market. It was really just a squared off mid 1970s car.

The Diplomat or Fury were the fleet cars, anything else was just a trim level difference.

[DerekTheGreat]

Nice info on the boots.
Ask Derek how many times I've said something along the lines of "I think that will work" only for him to find it indeed does not work.

..Like that time we were at US Auto and you told me an A/C compressor from a 302 truck would fit the straight six truck's bracket?

Good times and that was actually a good buy, as that compressor and it's lines went on Red, our '93 F-150.

yea I forgot to quote it to add context.

Keep in mind the M body was designed in an era when Chrysler had very limited money and was putting everything they had into the K car. It was essentially a facelift on the outgoing Aspen just to keep something in production for the RWD market. It was really just a squared off mid 1970s car.

The Diplomat or Fury were the fleet cars, anything else was just a trim level difference.

Oh yeah, very aware. My grandfather was head of payroll for Chrysler and my dad & all of my uncles worked in the factories in and around Detroit. "It was really just a squared off mid 70's car." Yep, only those looked better and could be had with big blocks & what not, which is why I'd rather have one of those over the 80's archaic lameness. A 1981 Sinatra Imperial or whatever those are could pique my curiosity. Even ole Blue Eyes hated his though. Chrysler got lucky that gamble paid off, but it's funny how every company realizes what their bread & butter segments are, yet bleed them dry to fund hopes & dreams. I would not have let those segments languish had I been running the show.

Grandpa had a fully decked out M-body Fifth Avenue, his most extravagant car in his career and life. It was probably an '85 or up, not exactly sure. I remember it was white and still had plastic on the door panels and stuff, red leather interior. I thought it was a stately car at six or so years old and hoped I'd get it. Then that changed as the car went away and I was introduced to an '87 Lincoln Town Car through a family friend. That redefined what a stately car was to me.

I will say that platform looked better in Dip or Fury trim. In Fifth Avenue trim, they just remind me of mid 70's Cadillac Sevilles- no need to bother when the Fleetwood was much better built and better looking.

[VicCrownVic]

Looked the same/close enough when they weren't side by side

[DerekTheGreat]

"Close enough" has always been my standard.

[gadget73]

I like the plushy seats on the 5th Ave better than the base Diplomat seats but those are the only two M bodies I've ever actually sat in. Otherwise don't have excessively strong opinions about them. I could drive a police trim Dippy with a seat swap.

[kishy]

Would the factory balljoints have similar dimensions for those boots to fit? The joints on mine are all surprisingly tight, but all the boots are cracked and torn. I kinda need to replace every boot in the front suspension, and it'd certainly be handy to know what fits beforehand.
...

I am not sure that the ball joints in this car are factory, given the car has 200k+ km and they're perfectly tight. However, the Moog (and Moog clone) boots do appear to fit the joints that were in the car just fine, and the joints that were in the car were meaningfully different in design than new-production Moog parts (that is, they don't appear to be aftermarket Moog joints), so it seems like they might be a safe-ish bet that they'll do the job.

I also tried fitting the boots on the cheap $5 ball joints and although not as good a fit, it would still be totally usable. I added a few more photos to the same imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/moog-ball-joint-boots-9mXozZj

It's worth noting that there are tons of assortments of not-quite-dimensionally-right boots all over eBay and something "good enough" might be able to be had much cheaper. But these do appear to be a properly decent product.

--



Status on the car:
Upper arms and knuckles are off on both sides.
Left lower ball joint has been replaced. Right still pending.
Left coil spring has been removed. New has not yet been installed. Right has not yet been removed.
Knocked a bunch of scale (and hopefully residual salt) off the frame in the vicinity of the knuckles. Wire wheeled. Slapped on a little paint.
Not aiming for, nor realistic to hope for perfection. Just want to buy it more time. Will do another coat, perhaps two. Just focusing on the area where it was worst, which was also the area hardest to do anything with once reassembled.







Getting the parts pile together. I am short one item to do the brakes the way I want, and that's the rear brake valve which threads into the 88ish+ master cylinder.
Doing my best to avoid spending money in the US presently, but my most accessible option to address this is in Detroit so I may go this weekend.

Mildly concerned as the free standing height of the new springs is ever so slightly less than that of the old springs. The old ones should have a little sag to them, so only time will tell what happens to the ride height. My goal is to get it a little up from where it's been, so even a subtle lift would help.

[DerekTheGreat]

...Getting the parts pile together. I am short one item to do the brakes the way I want, and that's the rear brake valve which threads into the 88ish+ master cylinder.
Doing my best to avoid spending money in the US presently, but my most accessible option to address this is in Detroit so I may go this weekend....

Yay Canada! "The 51st state.." If I were you, I'd avoid spending money here. It's a sad state of affairs as the rest of us who aren't brain dead are grieving, but fuck dictator trump and fascist musk.

I like the plushy seats on the 5th Ave better than the base Diplomat seats but those are the only two M bodies I've ever actually sat in. Otherwise don't have excessively strong opinions about them. I could drive a police trim Dippy with a seat swap.

That's a car I'd drive.

[Arquemann]

Well, I better measure my ball joints before ordering anything anyways. Whenever I might get to that job...
The boot measurements are very much appreciated! Looks like the size is quite large in comparison to the european selection at hand for me. Alot of stuff is either too small or wayyy too large.

[Tynnerstroem]

I’m weak in the knees for M-bodies. Would love a nice slick top Diplomat with those cop wheels.

Progress looks good kishy!

[gadget73]

Just an opinion on that, if you're going to the effort of splitting the ball joint from the spindle, just replace it. If its been running for a while with no boot, and especially if its not one you can pump grease into to force out dirt, its on borrowed time already. Already most of the way there, just have to press the thing out and a new one back in at that point.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

I am not sure that the ball joints in this car are factory, given the car has 200k+ km and they're perfectly tight. However, the Moog (and Moog clone) boots do appear to fit the joints that were in the car just fine, and the joints that were in the car were meaningfully different in design than new-production Moog parts (that is, they don't appear to be aftermarket Moog joints), so it seems like they might be a safe-ish bet that they'll do the job.

...

Getting the parts pile together. I am short one item to do the brakes the way I want, and that's the rear brake valve which threads into the 88ish+ master cylinder.

I'll mention my '87 is in a similar boat regarding the ball joints. The boots are certainly meh at this point, but I've kept them greased without issue, despite probably well over 15 years old (or older, uppers are still riveted in). Haven't had the issues I've had on '96-'02 cars with the creaky/squeaky joints, even with those having had replacement units fitted. Having an option to fit non-leaky boots seems worthwhile until the joints are actually wasted.


Still appreciate your info on the '88-'91 brake master cylinder swap. Compared to dealing with the old frame mounted proportioning valve, it's such a worthwhile improvement in the long term.