kishy's 1985 Country Squire

[Tiggie]

Wow, I'm surprised at how clean the inside of that tank is despite sitting with next to no fuel in it. Some dude on here posted a pic of the inside of his tank and it looked like you'd get tetanus just from looking at it.

Lol I think that was me Derek. http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthre...l=1#post772485

I also expected worse. Looks like the pump hanger and sending unit faired well.

[kishy]

Yes, pump hanger metal is OK (the rubber boot thing for the pump is all cracked though). Wires (exposed copper) to the pump are blackened, though. Sending unit is more or less OK, I have no reservations about putting it back in, and it checks out as working.

I have a good junkyard pump hanger with the rubber bits (parts hoarder here).

Something worth noting so I don't forget it: this car won't hold fuel pressure after priming. Based on heavy fuel smell when the air cleaner is open after priming, I believe at least one injector has serious leakdown issues.

I have plenty of injectors hanging around, but none of the funky CFI ones, so that'll go on the shopping list.

[DerekTheGreat]

Holy shit, yeah that was you! I've never seen one nastier, it's as if the car ran on salt water for chrissakes

[DerekTheGreat]

Yes, pump hanger metal is OK (the rubber boot thing for the pump is all cracked though). Wires (exposed copper) to the pump are blackened, though. Sending unit is more or less OK, I have no reservations about putting it back in, and it checks out as working.

I have a good junkyard pump hanger with the rubber bits (parts hoarder here).

Something worth noting so I don't forget it: this car won't hold fuel pressure after priming. Based on heavy fuel smell when the air cleaner is open after priming, I believe at least one injector has serious leakdown issues.

I've noticed the blackened wire thing on stuff before. What's your take on that? I've seen them green like the statue of liberty but wasn't sure there was in inbetween until recently. I try and clean them up before crimping but trying to cut wire until you see clean copper again might have you going to the splice or fuse box. It's crazy how far that stuff wicks out...

That reminds me of my Fury, when the float would stick the pump would force all kinds of fuel out the primaries. Sticking your head over them while it was doing it is alarming- looks like a running faucet.

[87gtVIC]

Something worth noting so I don't forget it: this car won't hold fuel pressure after priming. Based on heavy fuel smell when the air cleaner is open after priming, I believe at least one injector has serious leakdown issues.

When I first put in my new engine I had a BBK fuel pressure regulator installed and once the vehicle was off it would lose its prime. Swapped on a stock FPR and everything was fine again. Brand new BBK FPR.....maybe its a safety thing?

Obviously not saying this is your issue as I dont know the set up of CFI....but maybe its something to look into?

[kishy]

When I first put in my new engine I had a BBK fuel pressure regulator installed and once the vehicle was off it would lose its prime. Swapped on a stock FPR and everything was fine again. Brand new BBK FPR.....maybe its a safety thing?

Obviously not saying this is your issue as I dont know the set up of CFI....but maybe its something to look into?

FPR is a consideration, however it is a fixed pressure unit on CFI. There is no vacuum input and therefore no vacuum diaphragm to rupture, etc. It could be gummed up in some way from sitting and pressurizing it too much so the injectors are forced to leak...

There is a squeal/squeak sound when priming, which comes from the throttle body area. Seems to me it's the sound of the fuel squeezing out of whatever orifice it's getting through (be it the regulator to the return line, or through the injectors).

[kishy]

Accidentally napped after work. Decided to get something done anyway when I woke up.

Drained the diff. Oil level was acceptable (cover had a seeping leak at the bottom, no gasket used, just RTV) and oil appeared to be newer. There is no real play to speak of at the axle ends, but I'll likely slide the shafts out to put eyes on the bearing riding surface and see what they look like (if not to do anything about them, at least to know what condition they're in).

Got the driver rear shock out. Wasn't bad. Helps having the gas tank out, as it enables getting way further up in there than is normally possible otherwise. Passenger side is soaking in penetrating oil, a project for another evening.

That little 1/4" wrench has paid itself off many times on stupid little tasks like this.

[kishy]

Tonight's progress:

Removed the passenger rear shock. This one was an incredible PITA, not at the top, but the bottom. Ended up using a cutoff wheel to square off the stud and get a wrench on it. Didn't help that the threads sucked. Everything just sucked. Got it off though.

Pulled the axle shafts. Driver side shaft and bearing are fine. Passenger side bearing, some of the rollers have some surface pitting, and the shaft has a very very slight groove. The shaft did have an almost nonexistent amount of wiggle to it...just enough to make a little tiny bump up or down, perhaps 1/128" more than usual...unsure how to approach this. "Repair bearing" is an option. Could just let it go, but don't want to sacrifice the new brake shoes when the oil inevitably starts escaping. A junkyard axle shaft and a new normal bearing might be the right choice to compromise between cost and correct repair. Opening diffs in the junkyard isn't my idea of fun, however. I really try to avoid getting that far under cars there.

Removed the frontmost section of the parking brake cable. This is being replaced with new, as are both rear cables, only reusing the section in the middle. To my dismay the Dorman cables (I went with those for a reason, I think it was to get all items to ship from the same RockAuto warehouse) are not nylon or whatever-coated to resist corrosion. I'm therefore expecting a 5 year service life.

Removed the brake master cylinder, as well as the dual system valve on the frame (I am reasonably confident these are not proportioning valves...but that's a semantics argument for another day). Dug a new master out of my parts horde and found from the used parts stock the proportioning valve to go with it (I am reasonably confident that those are proportioning valves) as well as the low fluid level switch (seems to be hall effect). Cleaned out the prop valve pretty thoroughly, no point putting a whole new brake system together and putting garbage into it.

Reviewing my 91 EVTM the 3 wires to the brake fluid level switch are...
P/W from brake indicator bulb in cluster (hot with key in start or run)(also tees in with parking brake switch)
P/W from ignition switch (grounded in start; internally connects to above P/W inside switch, used for bulb check)
BK to ground

Thus the switch grounds the bulb circuit when the magnetic float inside the reservoir drops below the required threshold.

The two P/W wires are virtually identical in the 85 EVTM. The only difference in wiring is that the dual system switch grounds via its bolt into the frame rather than by a wire connection. So my wiring connections to convert this are super easy. The two existing wires will go to the two P/W wires on the new switch, and the ground wire just needs to find a ground nearby, and that's that.

The dual system valve does not actually verify low fluid (though it does imply it); it blocks an open half of the system should a fluid pressure drop occur in either the front or rear half. You could get a brake warning light with the older setup and find the master is still full. I suppose either implementation has its ups and downs.

New MC is bubble flare (this began right at the end of the 80s), worth noting that here.

[DerekTheGreat]

I spy a pizza box. Mmmm pizza.

[gadget73]

The thing on the frame is most properly known as a combination valve. It contains a proportioning valve as well as the metering valve. The metering valve starts fluid moving to the rear brakes before the front, which is part of why rear disc conversions with the old style block valve on the frame are prone to rear lockup on hard braking. The proportioning valve is the pressure split. Not sure if the residual valve is built into the block or not. I suspect it is since my Continental with 4 wheel disc uses the same master cylinder as the 86 Towncar did originally. Its also got the shuttle valve which trips the brake light switch. Its basically just a piston that acts on pressure differential. If its significantly different front to back, its supposed to slide over, shut off flow to the side that isn't building pressure, and kick the light on.

[kishy]

Let's hope not too many people saw this reply before I'm editing out my stupidity entirely:

Right you are. There are front and rear metering valves for proportioning inside the combo valve ("Pressure differential valve" in the Ford books).

In "upgrading" to the newer MC it seems to me I will lose dual system isolation...if a line breaks, I'm effed. Unless there's some other magic happening in the MC (doubtful, it's a pretty simple thing). But it was good enough for Ford when they built the newer cars (what I'm doing is a completely factory setup, just from a newer year).

edit in the very distant future from when this was written: the plastic reservoir does have a divider inside it, which prevents a failure in the front or rear system from draining the fluid from the other system. brake performance will be substantially degraded (as you'd expect) from a blown line, but the half of the system that still works should continue to work in that reduced capacity indefinitely.

[jaywish]

What are you using for new lines?

[gadget73]

you lose the shuttle valve but I sort of wonder how effective that really is. The dual circuit master will give you some brakes at one end or the other if you lose a line though. That setup became mandatory in the late 60s just for that reason. The old single circuit setups lost all 4 brakes completely if you lost a line anywhere.

[kishy]

What are you using for new lines?

I bought NiCopp specifically for this car, however after discovering that the main front to rear line was replaced and is in good shape, I might just use a union at the master end of that (previously into the combination valve, now needs to go directly into the master) and extend it to the master. The hard lines on the back axle will likely be the poly-coated steel which I have some of, somewhere. Front lines will either be that or NiCopp. Due to newer brake conversion, 100% of the front end is going to be bubble flares.

you lose the shuttle valve but I sort of wonder how effective that really is. The dual circuit master will give you some brakes at one end or the other if you lose a line though. That setup became mandatory in the late 60s just for that reason. The old single circuit setups lost all 4 brakes completely if you lost a line anywhere.

Having experienced a catastrophic brake failure in the Ranger with the same sort of valve (wheel cylinder overextended causing complete fluid loss in the rear system), I didn't find the remaining stopping power particularly helpful (there was virtually none). Additionally the shuttle valve did not effectively shut off the leaking system and it still lost all its fluid, which meant since that half wasn't pressurizing, the pedal was pretty much ineffective on the front half of the system (because half the MC was allowed to totally collapse).

While the newer master is still dual circuit, it is not dual reservoir, so fluid loss in one half will disable the other half after a stop or two. Presumably I would not continue driving if the pedal hit the floor, so I'd never need that "or two" second stop to happen.

[kishy]

Did some things, taking a break to go do other stuff now.

Mocked up the new master, as expected it mates with the booster just fine. The pigtail for the low fluid level switch (a junkyard item) was just long enough after re-routing the original safety switch wires. Added a ground wire, soldered it all up, verified it works. Cool. While I was at it I cleaned up the contacts on the parking brake pedal switch so that works 9/10 times now too.







Took apart a spare brake "proportioner" (Ford lingo, as best I can tell - the cylindrical valve on the newer master) and found there is a lot of room for garbage to accumulate in there. I will take apart and clean out the one I'm going to use. There is more to it than what I already took apart, a big spring valve thing hides in the rest of it.

Verified that 3/16" line will cooperate with the metric flare nuts. A bit of an air gap around the line inside the nut, but the nut will adequately push the flare into the receiving port on the master, so it'll work. My flaring set sucks and puts the flare a little off at an angle, but the crushing action of the flare nut into the ports fixes the flare by forming it to the port. Should be fine. The line I flared was spare material as a test, that isn't a line I'm installing (or maybe it is, I haven't decided, but it's plain steel).







Inventoried the "to-do" list in terms of parts remaining to be installed. Gas tank not pictured.



Removed the front shocks. Shocking.



Will likely get back to this later.