1985 CV - A Canadian 2bbl 302

[SeanP]

Hey guys! Thanks for your interest!

So status of the car is that I'm doing a carb rebuild when I get the chance (in the next week or two). I couldn't find a vacuum leak, other than that my carb is leaking at the front where it mates to the intake manifold. I will be doing a 4bbl conversion eventually, but for now, I'd just like to get her running right so she can be a proper driving project. I hate having the poor girl just sit in the garage.

In terms of the conversion, I was thinking a Stealth intake and an edelbrock carb. 500ish cfm was what I was thinking too. I was leaning towards edelbrock because I heard they were easier to set up and work with. However, I think I have to make some modifications for the AOD kickdown rod to hook up right (lokar cable kit is a must, right?). If I can keep the rod I have now and have it work with a holley, that would change my mind!

I also need to get new valve cover gaskets installed and then pop on my Lincoln Logs too then a dual exhaust needs to go on! Though that may wait for a head swap.

Also have plans for a barebones cam... they have them so they work off of the lopo firing order! Anyone have experience with these?

[DerekTheGreat]

Edelbrock carbs are warmed over quadrajunks, IMO. They're nice carbs I'm sure but the people who tell you Holley's are hard to work with expect to take a carb out of the box, throw it on and expect it to work. All carbs need fine tuning, you're going to have to mess with the jets, accelerator pump and secondaries to get it right. I was among that crowd. Threw on Holley carb and man, everything sucked. Hesitation off idle or after coasting (accelerator pump issues), no balls on the freeway or when tromped on (Secondaries weren't opening, power valve not right). I whined to my car guru buddy and asked if a Edelbrock carb would solve the issue. He called me a cop out pussy and made me buy the Holley 4150 book and read it. Did that, bought a vacuum gauge & jet kit along with some power valves and after some fiddling I've got that car running damn good and would invite anyone to drive it and find a flaw with how it runs.

As for the cam, there's no good reason to stay with the LoPo firing order, according to the gurus on here the LoPo order actually puts more stress on the main bearings so the 351 or 302 HO firing order is what you want. You don't have a computer so I believe the cam is all you need to change.

[88Vic]

You'll need to change the plug wires around to accommodate the firing order but that's it.

[gadget73]

nah, the Eddy carb is not a warmed over Q-jet. They are not nearly that advanced. They are a Carter AFB, which is a design from at least 10 years earlier. The Q-jet, when in proper shape and without that 1980s electronic bullshit tacked in works amazingly well. They want a spread bore intake to work correctly though, and I honestly don't know of any that exist for a Ford smallblock that are easily obtained.

The Eddys work OK, but I've never had one that worked better than "OK". They are easy to tune because you really can't do anything to them. Main jets, metering rods, idle screws. Thats it. Holleys are much more complicated, but they can actually be dialed in.

My answer to learning to tune a carb has been EFI though. I've gotten tired of dicking with calibrated vacuum leaks so I let the computer do it for me. Starts every time and doesn't make me cuss nearly so much.

[DerekTheGreat]

Ah, Carter, that's it. I knew it was some half-ass rip off. Not sure its easy to get to the changeable bits on one either but its real easy on a Holley; four bolts on either end and you're there. Accelerator pump took me the longest to dial in. EFI is lovely and I can start it in the winter and walk away without coming back to a dead car. Fury only has two vacuum lines (aside from secondary circuit) and no choke, which is pretty much its own anti theft system, short of someone putting it on a flatbed.

[gadget73]

The Eddy is pretty simple to get at that stuff too. The top plate comes off, but its 4 or 6 screws to lift that off. Once its off you can get to all the stuff pretty simple.

I'd expect the original carb on your Fury to have been an AFB if it was a 4bbl. 2bbl probably Carter BBD or whatever the Holley was that looked a lot like it. The AFB was originally fitted to some Chrysler in the late 1950s and they used them through the 70s. It was replaced with the ThermoQuad somewhere along the line. I believe Weber actually owns Carter now, and they distribute under the Edelbrock brand here in the US. For a while in the mid 1990s MerCruiser marine engines came fitted with Weber carbs that were absolutely identical, other than being painted black. I think that started when Rochester quit making the Q-jet. They were usually a lot more of a pain in the ass to start than the Q-jets were too. I really don't know why, but a a Q-jet lights off real easy if its in halfway decent working shape. Those Weber carbs usually required a lot more dicking with to make them start and idle until the engine warmed up.

[slack]

I had an Edelbrock carb on my '82 Deville "project" a few years ago. (Might have been a 1403.. the engine was an Olds 307.. so it didn't have much going for it anyway ) Never had a problem with it starting or running... Didn't require any crazy dicking around either. To be fair though, I wasn't going for performance, just some weekend driving.

[DerekTheGreat]

All 318's were 2bbl. My Fury was a mess when I got it back in '03. Last plated in '81 and was owned by the original owner's son. Was a new carb in the trunk along with old smut magazines, original carb was off and mice nested in the intake and radiator since the cap was off. Yanked that motor, friend gave me mildly cammed 318 minus the edelbrock intake, chrome valve covers and holley carb that was there. He gave me 1971 340 4bbl manifold which from what you're saying was for a Rochester carb, it's a spread bore and I've got some shitty adaptor on it to make my carb fit. Only time my car lights off easy is after it's been running for awhile, it'll go with a bump of the key. Never liked carbs until I fiddled with this one but now I don't mind them at all on a hobby car.

[SeanP]

So just to recap...

- Edelbrock < Holley
- HO Firing order > LOPO firing order
- All I need to change the firing order is a cam and move the wires around?

Anyone know what the deal is for the kickdown? If I go Holley are they set up for rod on my AOD or do I need the Lokar cable?

Also... if changing to a more aggressive cam, what's the best advice for things like springs, timing chain, etc? Also, should I get new lifters and pushrods? And lets say I keep stock heads... will there still be a very noticeable performance difference?

And here's one out of left field... valve covers, what is most badass? I was thinking of going finned at some point, but I don't have the budget for anything right now other than maybe a paint job and since I have to change the gaskets there's no time like the present... any colour suggestions? I was thinking standard Ford Blue but also thinking Black might look suitably awesome. Anyone do this recently and can offer any painting tips?

Oh, and carb rebuild starts this week! I'll track my progress and hopefully do a bit of a write up.

[SeanP]

Ok, so I got into the carb rebuild last week. Everything came off and apart pretty easily, although I had a bit of a hard time getting the carburetor off of the intake manifold. Also I've noticed that my carburetor is slightly different than other ones I've seen in write ups and in videos. My carb has an orange plastic tray in the same bowl the float is in.. it just sits opposite of the float (I'll try to remember to take a pic). Also, the venturis look a little different than the other ones I've seen. And of course, there are the marshmallows blocking full access to the mixture screws. They have a slot that the power valve plate notches into so they are not adjustable unless the carb is off and the power valve plate is off. I think those marshmallows are going to get the old heave ho. Then I'll have sweet sweet naked screws.

While the carb is off I plan on taking advantage of my increased access to things under the hood and clean up stuff a bit and do my valve cover gasket change.

Also, got way too involved in the carb stuff and too like no pics of anything... I think my doing a write up was a little too ambitious on my part. I'll take some after pics at least!

[SeanP]

I got the valve cover gaskets replaced today. Driver's side was a crappy gasket and crumbled, passenger's side wasn't all that bad and stayed in one piece, but fell apart when I took it off the head.

I couldn't believe what a huge pain in the ass it was to get to some of these bolts and then try and take the cover's off through the web of tubing and wires... effing 1980's. Oh well, it's over now. And I think it's worked well! Once I have the carb back together and set up, I'll fire it up to make sure there's no leaks under the covers!

It was also interesting to see how different the condition of the paint was between each bank. A lot of the paint on one was still in tact and the other had almost all of its paint worn away. Here's some pics:



You can see the one still on the motor looks pretty good, the one I have off cleaned up alright, but still looked pretty worn out after. I decided not to paint them because I plan on swapping the covers some time in the future.

I'll put the carb together this week and hopefully it will all work well!

Just a quick question though:

During my efforts today I had to disconnect a coolant hose from the intake and some of the coolant spilled out... does this depressurize the cooling system or let air into it or something? This may be a dumb question, but I don't want to fire up the motor after doing all this work only to find I've effed it up.

[Mainemantom]

Loosing a LITTLE coolant will not do any harm. Just make sure your hose and clamps are in good condition when reconnecting. Check the coolant before starting. Let the car warm up by taking a drive. When it cools off later that day or the next, Check the coolant. Everything should be fine. If not check for leaks, add coolant if necessary. I just had to have those hoses replaced the other day. They were badly cracked even though they had been replace a year ago. No coolant needed to be added on mine.

[SeanP]

Cool. I only lost a bit. I was able to soak it all up with a couple of rags where it pooled on my intake manifold. Didn't even get any on the floor.

[SeanP]

well, finally, the big blue boat finally got to its first cruise night. Sure, she isn't as pretty as she could be, but at least she drives well now! I drove to London (Ontario, not UK) and back with no incidents, no sputtering and only a hint of hesitation on full throttle from stop (which from what I remember when learning to drive on a car with a carburetor, is a pretty common occurrence).

I still need to sort out my idle settings... but it's not so bad - seriously, just turn the key to start and it has only stalled once on me since I rebuilt the carb - and that was more my fault as a driver than the condition of things under the hood.

The new valve cover gaskets have made my oil leaks a thing of the past. I now feel sufficiently confident that I can replace my spark wires without the fear of having freshly spilled oil baked onto them.

All in all it's looking good for the lady in blue. All I have to do now is save money for a new exhaust, sort out the paint and minor rust spots, convert to a 4bbl, swap the heads, install a mild cam and sort out the suspension. Easy peasy.

[DerekTheGreat]

Buy yourself a Holley, then get me up there and I'll tune it for ya! No hesitation at all. Hesitation from stop to full throttle is an accelerator pump thing, not sure how that Ford carb works or if it's even adjustable.. I've got cams & different pump sizes for holley stuff along with different jet sizes...