P72Ford's White Box

[P72Ford]

Sounds like the sort of route I might choose. Mechanical pumps are something of a nuisance IMO (I don't like the location, for one), but they definitely have simplicity on their side.

Though, didn't Tom have a SEFI tank in that thing? If so, is there a way to run a low-pressure pump in the stock SEFI location? I'd expect that should be possible with some modification of a stock pump bracket ... though, it strikes me that it may be worthwhile to conct a larger line out of the tank to mate up with the 1/2" feed. Since you're already thinking AN, I imagine that should be easy to do with an appropriate bulkhead fitting.


FWIW, I somewhat regret my choice of a deadhead regulator on my car. If I get fancy in the future, I'll strongly consider a return line. Ho, hum.

Interesting points, Michael.

I have looked at quite a few options for an in tank pump, but none really provide the flow rate I am looking for, that are also submersible, and able to pull uphill.

I will be doing just what you said for modifying the pick up with a bulkhead fitting. I'm actually going to add two bulkheads, and cap one, just in case I decide to run a return system down the road.

For now, though, I am not going to use a return system. The pump I will be using is going to provide 6 psi, and doesn't recommend using a regulator.

Down the road if I decide I need a return, I can go that route. But for years cars used mechanical pumps with no returns, without issue.

What pump are you using that required the use of a regulator? Have you ever considered swapping pumps as opposed to running a return line?

[1987cp]

I've got the cheap Summit 80psi pump, rated at 7-9psi IIRC, while the AFB wants more like 4-6psi, so I got a regulator and gauge to go with it. A return line isn't strictly necessary, but I have the idea in my head that it might be better that way. Haven't yet actually run that past anyone who knows more than I do, though, and of course that isn't something I'd be doing in anything like the near future.

Which pump are you looking at that flows 110psi but still delivers fuel at the correct pressure?

[P72Ford]

Well, the Edelbrock pumps are rated at 6 psi max, specifically state no regulator, and provide up to 110 gph. Holley also makes a pump, and so does Carter. However, I have read that the Carters do indeed require a regulator, despite the recommendation.

[1987cp]

That sounds like a smart item to be looking at. I liked the $55 price of the one I bought, but then got to add $27 for the regulator and $17 for the gauge, plus brass fittings, so it all came to nearly the cost of the EDL-1725, plus I had to find places to mount everything!

[Lincolnmania]

i would go with the mechanical fuel pump

[P72Ford]

That sounds like a smart item to be looking at. I liked the $55 price of the one I bought, but then got to add $27 for the regulator and $17 for the gauge, plus brass fittings, so it all came to nearly the cost of the EDL-1725, plus I had to find places to mount everything!

Thats what I was thinking... I like stuff to be clean and uncluttered, which is one of the reasons the elcetric pump just wasn't going to happen. Between the filters and pump on the frame/ in the trunk, and the regulator with 4 hoses coming off of it (feed, return, two lines to the carb bowls), it would look like a spaghetti factory under the hood.

With this mechancial pump, I run a line, put a couple quality filters inline, and plumb it into the carb. I'll definitely have a gauge on it, just to be sure, but it will be quiet, and provide as much fuel as a 302 would ever need, at the right pressure.

Because I am eventually going to drag race the car, I was a little skeptical of the mechanical pumps... but there are guys out there running in the 9's with a mechanical pump without issues. Even if I decide to swap the engine, if I upgrade the pump, then I can continue on my way, adding a return line if needed. I like the simplicity and flexibility of this idea.

i would go with the mechanical fuel pump

Its definitely looking that way.

And I am figuring that if I am changing the front cover and adding an eccentric, I might as well get in there and change the camshaft as well. I was also planning on doing the water pump, timing chain, and adding a balancer with engraved markings. Even though I a fairly certain those items don't have shit for mileage on them, I don't wantt to find out the hard way.

I'm actually considering an electric water pump, but I'm not sure how it would do on a car I plan to drive alot. Probably won't go that route...

[1987cp]

I'm actually considering an electric water pump, but I'm not sure how it would do on a car I plan to drive alot. Probably won't go that route...

That car already has an electric fan, doesn't it? That removes an awful lot of hassle right there.

[P72Ford]

It had electric fans, which I removed when I was preparing it for storage. They weren't working because the wiring had been disturbed, and rather than troubleshoot, I put on a mechanical I had.

The electric fans will be going back on. I am going to be pulling the radiator anyway, so I may reinstall them at that time.

[gadget73]

The pump and all that stuff was new with the engine. Chain as well. I believe the pump is the HD one with the extra bolts, but don't hold me to that. I know the chain is a double roller, and I think it may be the kind that allows the cam to be advanced or retarded.

[P72Ford]

That's all true Thain, and the cam is advance 4 degrees from what I am told. I just thought it'd. Be good to change that stuff for insurance. I am trying to find a decent cam now. PTV seems to be an issue... although it does have valve reliefs in the pistons.

[Lincolnmania]

iirc they are hyper truck pistons and we figured the comp ratio to be around 9.5:1

[1987cp]

I think you should put in an indecent cam.

[P72Ford]

You'll have to explain, Michael.

[P72Ford]

It seems like the more research I do into what cam to use, the more expensive this project is becoming.

Originally I really wanted to use a 3000 stall converter in this car. But from my research, that is a little much for the shorter duration of the XE264. So, if I go with the 264, I'd probably be more inclined to go with something between 2400 and 2800. If I go with the N21, I will definitely use a 3000 stall converter. Most OTS converters for the AOD in this stall range don't have the best reputations. There is a guy local to me that I may have make me one... or I may just get on the horn with Lentech. But the converter is going to go in after the cam, which is less than ideal. But because I have to take the engine apart to do the fuel system (which has to happen first), I will do the cam then.

While doing research today, I decided to try and find some folks running an N21 or XE264with GT40 Ps, and the TFS spring upgrade. I did not like what I found. The TFS kit is supposedly good until you start to push the envelope with lift (springs are rated to .542, which the 264 with 1.7s exceeds). The springs are prone to coil bind at those levels. I also read about the retainers giving up on some people...

So I looked at the crower beehive spring kit... but I became disgusted whilst reading about properly setting up valve springs. Curses.

The first thing that popped into my head was... I should have bought the TFS TW 170 heads back when they were on sale. They're assembled, suited for .600" lift (not that I need that, but the springs are adequate), and they're right. No fiddling with installed height, shims, etc, etc. Plus, the power improvement would be quite nice.

So now its looking like I may be adding heads to the list. I have evidence of folks running the N41 (1.6RRs) with a stock short block, with suitable PTV clearance. This means I'll also be adding 1.6 stud mount rockers to the list...

The budget just went up $1500, if I choose to go this route. If I do that, the 302 will be sticking around for a while.

Of course, I could just stab in the N21, check clearance, and throw caution to the wind. Or, I could leave the HO cam, and see how it runs with that. But before I go changing springs and assing around, I'll just buy a set of decent heads.

Anyone looking for a relatively fresh set of P heads with 1.7 RRs?

[mrltd]

Get a 351W block, good heads, and build a real motor...play with the car until that's done