P72Ford's White Box

[gadget73]

yeah I like full sweeps, but those are damn near unobtanium in electric. When you do find them, they're expensive, and often dont look all that good.

Where I want to put the gauges, mechanical is impractical for me. I like electric gauges just for the fact that I can hide wires easier than I can hide a pipe. Whenever you want to unload them, shoot me a PM with a price and we'll figure something out. I'm in no hurry, and I'm assuming you aren't either.

[1987cp]

Going to get one of the nice variable-speed fan controller we talked about in my fan-switch thread?

Going to get whatever converter is recommended by your cam grinder, I presume ....

Header polish? You're still thinking on nice custom pulse-tuned longtubes, right?

[P72Ford]

I'll let you know on the gauges, Thain. I won't be removing them until the spring sometime.

Going to get one of the nice variable-speed fan controller we talked about in my fan-switch thread?

Going to get whatever converter is recommended by your cam grinder, I presume ....

Header polish? You're still thinking on nice custom pulse-tuned longtubes, right?

I'm still not sold on an electric fan, really. I don't think there is enough space to run a Mk VIII fan on this car, with as large as the radiator is. So I may be relagated to figuring out something else with the fans I have. The switch mechanism won't be all that high tech, although it will be controlled with a temp sender.

I have a plan for a mechanical fan that would be controlled by a clutch, as well.

This engine will probably utilize an OTS cam grind. The 306 isn't the end all engine here. I will look at custom grinds, and I may consider one if they aren't too much more than the cams I am currently looking at. I have been looking at the lower range Anderson Ford Motorsports cams (specifically the N21), as of lately. Not sure if it would fit, but I like what I have read.

Also, regarding the header polish. The FRPP shorties are cloudy and somewhat tarnished. When I remove the headers for new gaskets, I will clean them up.

Like I said, the 306 isn't the end all here, so a set of longtubes will not be in the works for this engine. I actually have a set of long tubes to test fit on here, that look promising. However, with the P heads, they really won't work. But I think if they fit, I'd probably buy a set of heads, just to have long tubes on the car.

If I am going to have a set of long tubes made, they will be for one of my 'down the road' engine options. One of which is a windsor stroker; the others are off brand considerations which I will not mention.

At the end of the day, a 302 is just too small of an engine for this size car, to do what I want to do. Even a stroked 302 (I'd do a 331), wouldn't be adequate.

[1987cp]

At the end of the day, a 302 is just too small of an engine for this size car, to do what I want to do. Even a stroked 302 (I'd do a 331), wouldn't be adequate.

Hm, twill be interesting to see what exactly you have in mind. Must be pretty extreme! IMO, 600-plus FWHP should be plenty entertaining, and evidently there's no need for a big motor to do that. (you read up on the head-limited 694hp NA 347, right?)

[P72Ford]

Hm, twill be interesting to see what exactly you have in mind. Must be pretty extreme! IMO, 600-plus FWHP should be plenty entertaining, and evidently there's no need for a big motor to do that. (you read up on the head-limited 694hp NA 347, right?)

Since I have some time this morning, I guess I wil spend some time talking about future engine options.

An engine build/ swap is a ways out (at least a year).

But my first option would be a 408 Windsor stroker, based on an F4 block. If I go this route, I will be utilizing a local shop as the knowledge base for the machine work and parts recommendations. No one here has ever heard of them, but the owner is brilliant.

The 408 would have the finest quality crank, rods, pistons, and hardware. Assembled by this shop, I have no doubt it'd be indestructable. I will buy good heads; whether they be AFR/ TF TW, etc (I haven't done my homework on the engine build yet), they'd support plenty of power. I'd consult the shop on cam choice, and I have also been doing my own homework on cam selection (for my current build), so that I can make an informed decision. I'd have custom long tubes made for his application.

The AOD would stay as long as it lived, and then I'd pull it. Maybe for a 5 speed, but more than likely for a race prepped C4, or maybe another AOD. When it comes to drag racing, you really can't beat an automatic, and its also easier on the car.

I have alot of faith in the 8.8, but if it grenades (behind a future build), I've already thought about replacements. 9" Ford or D60. More than likely the former.

The second option would be an LSx swap with a T56. I'd buy a complete engine/ transmission set-up. Then a carbed intake and ignition system, and run it that way. Probably put a nasty cam in there, but leave the engine mostly stock to start. I'd upgrade the clutch though. Make a custom transmission corssmember, and mounts. As time progressed I'd probably do a build on a hot rod LS engine. But that is a long way out. I am planning on keeping and racing this car indefinitely. If I found the 6 speed to be inadequate, I'd put a TH400 beind it. Any automatic that goes in the car will be shifted via the column. Custom long tubes would also happen for this build.

The third option seems far fetched, but I really like the idea. A 500 inch Cadillac swap with a TH400. Custom mounts and trans x member. If I find a decent core engine, I can use the stock crank, and there are options for aftermarket rods and pistons. Aftermarket cranks are available, but these are generally 5500 rpm engines, so the stock crank is usually ok.

There are a few companies that support these engines. With ported iron heads they can easily make 600 hp, and much higher torque numbers. There are roller cam conversions, custom intakes, oil pans, etc, etc. I could also have long tubes built for this.

The 500 is lighter than a BBC, and the torque potential is outrageous.

Right now I see any one of these options as viable, and all relatively equally priced. The two later options require more work on my end, but thats the price you pay for something being unique. Whatever I choose, there isn't going to be any magic. Just reliable support systems for the engine, good parts, precision machine work and assembly. No forced induction (I've been there), nitrous, extremely radical builds, etc.

I intend to drive this car on the street quite a bit in the summer, etc.

[1987cp]

I feel an urge to go read about custom-cammed 408Ws with 225ish FAC heads, Victor intakes, and 2" headers ...... :3gears:

Sounds like your nearby shop is something along the lines of Ford Strokers near Chicago ....

Why an F4 block, BTW? Linkbar lifters won't be a significant hangup for your project ....

[P72Ford]

I have an F4 block.

I'm liking the Cadillac engine more and more, the more I read.

[1980c10]

Crazy question. But what are you doing for the hood? A carbed lsx with a super Vic would surely stick through the hood, and a winsor whith the hp you wanna make would also need a large intake, I would also assume the 500 caddy is gonna be fairly tall as well.

[1987cp]

I imagine it's quite possible to make outstanding power with something that fits under the stock hood, even if that means the inlet isn't as optimized as it might be.

[P72Ford]

The Cadillac engine will fit under the hood.

If I had to, I'd put a cowl on the hood.

We have the technology.

[packman]

Caddy mill seems like an interesting idea. Though I hope you go with the 408W. In any event, you got time to figure that stuff out. I think hood clearance is a minor problem with his plans for the car.

I wonder if the harshness can be attributed to the poly bushing swap all around the car (minus the trans mount). I have the same spring setup and with the low profile 17"s, it doesn't feel all that bad. I am trying to convice my father to let me rebuild the rear for the CV in the garage. That will get poly bushings. I will also try to tackle poly bushings up front as well. So I will see how that affects the ride quality. Though I do have to deal with a stock-empty S-10 that punishes my kidneys on the smallest of bumps and crevices. Anything seems better than that truck, even a school bus at this point.



Packman

[1980c10]

I have just never seen a cowl hood on these cars that was done well in my opinion. I think to look right on these cars (again IMO) the scoop needs to start at the very nose of the car and have a long swooping line back to the windshield. I think it looks stupid when the cowl starts at the front of the hood and there is still a foot of front end out there with no cowl on it. It ruins the lines of the car. IMO of course lol.

[gadget73]

All things being equal, the Caddy engine is a far more unique powerplant than a stroked Windsor. I'm usually not a big fan of mixing and matching engines like that, but I'll give it a pass for something as cool as a 500. If you put a Chevy 350 in it though, I'll come up there and slash your tires.

[Pirate]

All things being equal, the Caddy engine is a far more unique powerplant than a stroked Windsor.

That's probably why I'm still contemplating installing a 2005-up 6.8 V10 into my heap. A 408W-powered car is pretty much one penguin in a sea of other penguins, singing 'I just gotta be me!'....

[packman]

That's probably why I'm still contemplating installing a 2005-up 6.8 V10 into my heap. A 408W-powered car is pretty much one penguin in a sea of other penguins, singing 'I just gotta be me!'....

Yeah I guess there are a lot of big-inch Windsor powered Panthers out there. Not that the 500 Caddy would be a bad idea.



Packman