My 1987 Two Door Crown Victoria AKA THE BROWN BLOB

[sly]

if you can't talk to the computer, it may be dicked. Hook up the quarterhorse and try to talk to it that way. If it'll talk that way, you might be able to figure something out. The ECM in the Lincoln when I first got it was an A9P that wouldn't talk through the idiot light port and found out that pin on the CPU was fried, but it still ran like a top. The A9M I replaced it with ran exactly the same AND would talk with a tester connected to it. Though, through no fault of your own, the computer might be dicked from all the changes if something internal to the chips fried that you can't see. If you have another computer to play with, load it in and see what happens. You may also want to just try all stock injectors and see if it'll chooch. Get it running "stock" and then add in the more choochy stuffs.

[87gtVIC]

I think I had corrosion on the test wires. I pulled the 60pin and plugged in my spare HO mkVII computer to see if I could pull codes (I know I would not get any codes from what was going on,,,just testing the wiring) and that did not work. WHAT THE HELL. Then pulled that out and installed my stock LOPO computer and then it pulled codes. Plugged back in the a9p and I was able to pull codes. Great.

Before the above.....


I did a bunch of stuff today. Set the TPS to exactly .98 and checked its range. All good.

Noticed fuel pressure was leaking somewhere according to the gauge. Pulled upper intake and pulled fuel rail up with injectors. Primed pump and no fuel came out of any of them YET the pressure went all the way back to zero. Turns out it was the adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Put the stock FPR back in and it holds pressure like a boss. FFFFFFuuuuuuuu BBK. POS.

Replaced the brand freaking new heater pipe with the old one that I put new o rings into and am hoping for the best. SO far good. FffFfffFffffuuuUuUuuuuuu Late Mode Resto. Your pipe sucks!

Also pulled the p side valve cover to see that both intake and exhaust valves were closed with piston at TDC. Basically what the pictures showed a few posts above.

Buttoned up everything and dropped the dizzy in at 10btc. Timing light confirmed.

Runs only with some throttle applied. Backfires through intake and exhaust.

Sucking sound just like first video of engine start I posted back at the end of march. Mega vacuum leak I still believe. This does not sound like a gear meshing, or starter problem. Starter is fine.

Inside the car looks like this. No idea why the audio crapped out yet this is the same run from above BUT inside the car.

Gauges from left to righ are AFR, Coolant Temp, Oil Pressure, Tachometer, Volts and Vacuum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVrxsr5GAaU

Pulled codes 12, 21, 26, 23, 41, 91 and 13.

Gonna research what the hell to do.

[87gtVIC]

Codes:
KOER

12-Cannot control RPM during ER Self Test High RPM Check

13-Cannot control RPM during ER Self Test Low RPM Check

21- ECT out of self test range 0.3-3.7volts

23-Closed throttle TPS voltage higher/lower than expected

26-MAF sensor was not between .2 and 1.5volts with engine running

41-No HEGO switching detected always lean (RIGHT SIDE)

91-HEGO sensor indicates system lean (LEFT SIDE)


HEGOs match up with what the wide band is reading.

not worried about 12, 13 or 23 because I was on the throttle the entire time to get it to run.

21 and 41 concern me. How to test?

did not think to check for KOEO Codes. Will check next time.

[MattsLincoln]

Codes:
KOER

12-Cannot control RPM during ER Self Test High RPM Check

13-Cannot control RPM during ER Self Test Low RPM Check

21- ECT out of self test range 0.3-3.7volts

23-Closed throttle TPS voltage higher/lower than expected

26-MAF sensor was not between .2 and 1.5volts with engine running

41-No HEGO switching detected always lean (RIGHT SIDE)

91-HEGO sensor indicates system lean (LEFT SIDE)


HEGOs match up with what the wide band is reading.

not worried about 12, 13 or 23 because I was on the throttle the entire time to get it to run.

21 and 41 concern me. How to test?

did not think to check for KOEO Codes. Will check next time.

Thats a decent amount of codes, which makes me think that ecm is fucked

[sly]

pull the connector on the ECT and test for temp via ohm meter and compare to the chart: http://www.grandmarq.net/oldfuelinjection/page28.html

Either the ECT is dead or the wiring to it is jacked/flaky/bad connections.

With the HEGO, check for crap connections (salt and pepper shakers). Heck, your whole issue may be shite connections through all those connectors between the ECM and the engine. I know I've had issues with all that shit too.

[gadget73]

You'll get a 21 if the engine isn't warmed up. Ignore if not up to operating temperature.

41 and 91 just mean its way lean. If you have a huge vac leak, that would do it.

I'd be more concerned with the MAF voltage honestly. Sounds like a possible leak between the MAF and the throttle body. You have any holes in that pipe plugged up, right? The later cars tie into that for IAC and the valve cover thing. Related to that, you'll need that tube on top of the throttle body plugged or connected to the valve cover somehow. Ideally it goes to the cover so all air sucked through the PCV is metered.

23 might mean a dead spot in the TPS. If you have an analog voltmeter, sweep it and see if it reads. If the needle dips or jumps its toast. Harder to see that on a digital.

[87gtVIC]

Thats a decent amount of codes, which makes me think that ecm is fucked

The codes make sense when you break them down.

pull the connector on the ECT and test for temp via ohm meter and compare to the chart: http://www.grandmarq.net/oldfuelinjection/page28.html

Either the ECT is dead or the wiring to it is jacked/flaky/bad connections.

With the HEGO, check for crap connections (salt and pepper shakers). Heck, your whole issue may be shite connections through all those connectors between the ECM and the engine. I know I've had issues with all that shit too.

I will check wiring.

You'll get a 21 if the engine isn't warmed up. Ignore if not up to operating temperature.

41 and 91 just mean its way lean. If you have a huge vac leak, that would do it.

I'd be more concerned with the MAF voltage honestly. Sounds like a possible leak between the MAF and the throttle body. You have any holes in that pipe plugged up, right? The later cars tie into that for IAC and the valve cover thing. Related to that, you'll need that tube on top of the throttle body plugged or connected to the valve cover somehow. Ideally it goes to the cover so all air sucked through the PCV is metered.

23 might mean a dead spot in the TPS. If you have an analog voltmeter, sweep it and see if it reads. If the needle dips or jumps its toast. Harder to see that on a digital.

Engine was not warmed up. Just trying to start it. I'll temporarily ignore that code 21.

41 and 91 mean just that. Where the hell is this leak......

Tuner watched these same videos and got a list of the same codes. He wrote me two tunes each with more fuel then the next (original tune is tune 1, new tunes are 2 and 3). He said he wrote it lean to begin with. I will run tune 2 with 16% more fuel and report back to him with the AFR's. I have another with even more if need be.

I hope this is not just a way to overcome a vacuum leak.....any test I can do...smoke test or something to find a nasty vacuum leak. I am NOT spraying carb/brake clean on the engine. All the paint will go to hell.

26 is stumping me. Maf is a slot style in the housing. Zip tube up to throttle body. One hole in zip tube siliconed shut with a plug. Tube on top of throttle body is tied into the oil fill on the passenger side valve cover.

How can a leak make the voltage not between .2 and 1.5 with engine running?

23 I believe is there because I was on the throttle the whole test. The test could not run properly because I was overriding it. Much like 12 and 13. This sounds logical to me.

[87gtVIC]

Okay, so now all codes are accounted for.

26 according to the tuner is due to the engine not at operating temp much like 21. Just find it interesting that 24 did not come up too. 24 is for the ACT.

Just hope adding more fuel is not a crutch for overcoming a potential vacuum leak.

Will find out.

[Brown_Muscle]

F*ck BBK as well, terrible experience with their headers.

I'm a bit confused, you have a Moates J3 chip, correct? You're not supposed to be able to pull codes with the chip inserted. Unless he really messed up with the fuel initially, the car should still run and Idle. Of course the only way to really tune it is in person, but that's not exactly possible for you right now, regardless he should have been able to get it close enough to run.

Can you rent a smoke machine?

[87gtVIC]

I have a quarterhorse not a J3.

Id have to look into the smoke machine. I will purchase some propane and try that first.

F*ck BBK as well, terrible experience with their headers.

I'm a bit confused, you have a Moates J3 chip, correct? You're not supposed to be able to pull codes with the chip inserted. Unless he really messed up with the fuel initially, the car should still run and Idle. Of course the only way to really tune it is in person, but that's not exactly possible for you right now, regardless he should have been able to get it close enough to run.

Can you rent a smoke machine?

[mitymerc]

David, I hope you can get this figgered soon. You must be awfully frustrated. It will be worth the effort in the long run though.

[Bobcat]

Did you time it with the spout connector un plugged?

[sly]

Gotta get it to idle first before you can dial in the timing.

[Grand Marquis GT]

Can you rent a smoke machine?

You can build your own

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTAwO-2-6k

[87gtVIC]

David, I hope you can get this figgered soon. You must be awfully frustrated. It will be worth the effort in the long run though.

Thanks Jim.

Planning to start pulling vacuum lines and capping them. Isolate the engine from all external stuff. Run it and if the noise still happens it is a vacuum leak somewhere on the engine. Propane will come out next and I will check around the injectors, lower intake (all around), intake spacer, upper intake, EGR spacer, and throttle body. I will be at a Total loss with chasing down that sucking sound if this does not provide results.

Did you time it with the spout connector un plugged?

Yes.

You can build your own
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTAwO-2-6k

That appeared to provide some good smoke.

If propane fails me then this may be the next best thing.