The new Thunderbird.

[Pirate]

Another non-update: I'm still going to get the parts car, but I'm letting him keep the MK8 motor and T45 5-speed....I still cannot believe how hideously expensive these goddamn motors are to modify, even though these engines have been out for over a decade....I'd run the stock MK8 motor, but I'm scared of the cast crank bottom end. Considering how easy/cheap it is to get the same power out of a 5.0 pushrod motor, in comparison to the 4.6 DOHC, which, unless you add a blower to it, or $1200+ worth of cams, in addition to a $800 set of custom Kooks headers (the only set that fits in this car)....you're forever stuck at around the 325-340hp mark...if the crank holds up.

The stock AOD is coming out of the Bird this weekend, as I'm going to toss my rebuilt SC aod and stall convertor in the car, just to see how it runs.

More non-news later.

[Pirate]

Picking up a set of P heads tomorrow.


$60.


Obviously, I've bailed from doing the 4.6 DOHC motor idea, because it's stupidly expensive to build these motors....for example; anyone have $1200+ for a set of cams? Anyone? Bueller?

I won't run a cast crank in a 4.6 DOHC motor, which of course requires a forged rotating assembly ($2500 plus block work, in addition to having to degree all four cams), and the power simply isn't there in N/A format. Given how little room there is on top of the engine....I'm not really interested in doing a supercharged setup, unless I go with a blown 302 or 351W.

And yes, I bore you all yet again with my ramblings.

The transmission is almost out of the car (I am picking at it), so that task should be completed soon. I'm thinking of adding a 4R70W intermediate pressure plate to the rebuilt SC AOD, so I can add an additional friction disc and steel (provides for a nasty 1-2 shift), and maybe replace the O/D band while it's apart.

[Pirate]

Yee haw!

I've got a .030-over 351C coming home Tuesday. Canted Valves for teh win!

[Lincolnmania]

and you cant find affordable headers for the 302 lol

[Pirate]

and you cant find affordable headers for the 302 lol

There's a fox-body swap header that looks like it might work. Beyond that, I was going to have to get something custom-built eventually....

[1987cp]

There's a fox-body swap header that looks like it might work. Beyond that, I was going to have to get something custom-built eventually....

Even for a 302 in a Fox-ish chassis? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9030/

Granted, there may quickly come a point where 1-5/8" is more than a little too small .... the BBK 1-3/4s are pretty cheap, but come with a lousy 2.5" collector .... and the only Windsor-head stuff Summit seems to offer in 1-7/8" is by Hedman, which I know some people dislike intensely.

[Lincolnmania]

There's a fox-body swap header that looks like it might work. Beyond that, I was going to have to get something custom-built eventually....

for a 2v or a 4v cleveland? do these require half a months salary?
been thinkin of a cleveland in a box for years but shorty headers were my stopping point

[1987cp]

Maybe Ivan can help you whittle up a set from a kit?

[Pirate]

Shit.

I have nothing else to say, but shit.

The motor is useless. It's a .030 overbore....I popped a head off, before I handed my cash over....and the supposedly low-mile .030-over 351C is a worn-out .030-over 351C....and there isn't enough material in the bores left over for .040....and come to find out, the motor always ran warm, indicating that they went too thin on the cylinder walls (Clevelands share this problem with modern 5.0 blocks, .020 is too much of an overbore at times) to begin with.

So, I'm back to zero....again....after driving a 400-mile round trip to go pick up this engine from a friend, and the engine ended up being a turd. It wasn't a total loss, I got to hang out and do some work on his '66 Mustang that he's restoring, and I got to hang out with my Fairlane buddy (he builds 1963-1964-1965 Thunderbolt replicas, he's currently working on converting a 1963 Fairlane ranch wagon over to 'Thunderbolt' status, engine bay mods and all) but I really would have liked to bring a 351C home.

More later, although I'm half-tempted to toss a pissed-off 460 into the car (replete with tunnel-ram and two fours), and run it with open headers just to piss the neighbors off. It's not like the car is a daily-driver, anyway.

[Pirate]

Update: As mentioned in 'What are you working on...', I attempted to test fit the new set of Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers (that I picked up from a 1990 Bronco in scene 23, if you recall), and I met with failure....sort of.

The driver's side header isn't even close. The front half of the upper tri-y section (4 into 2) goes straight into the rack and pinion, and the rear half of the upper section goes straight into the steering shaft.

The passenger side won't even be a problem, however. It fits in there perfectly. In fact, I have room for damn-near two sets of headers over there on that side of the car. It drops down perfectly, doesn't hit anything else, and it's at the right depth.

The driver's side, however....I think the bulk of the existing piece is reusable, with the bottom half of the header being useable, and the head flange being okay....it's just the crap in the middle that gets in the way.

I am going to drop by the exhaust shop on my way to work later this morning to see if using that header is workable. If I still have to get something custom-built...I'm not going to bother until I get something finalized with the engine package.

I still have to go to Portland Tuesday, and I want to see if I can get these headers to fit in a box.

Something else I noticed: I think I have room for an Eaton M90 blower down where the smog pump used to be (I'm almost finished yanking it, I can't get the stupid fan clutch off)....

more later.

[Pirate]

I was screwing around with the Bird a couple of days ago, taking some measurements, after coming up with an idea.

Due to the long wheelbase, and a bit of a cab-forward design of the MN12 platform....has anyone else noticed that this would be an excellent body for a mid-engine/transaxle conversion?

There is enough room for a Ford GT/GT40 transaxle AND a 6.8 V10, and not intrude upon the driver's compartment (the front seats, anyway). In the bargain, with the engine moved to the middle of the car, I can mod the tranny tunnel to gain more legroom, and at the same time, lower the floor so I can have more headroom.

The logic behind this is was to create a sort of low-buck GT40 (or more specifically, a stupidly-cheap Lambo Gallardo, lol), but to use a V10 engine instead of a supercharged V8, as I'm further appreciating the simplicity of a N/A engine and the ability to run almost any kind of gasoline without having to worry about detonation.

No, I'm not going to go out and cut the car apart right now, this was just something I came up with as a 'blue sky' moment.

Beyond that....I would route the exhaust over the top of the transaxle, and out of the trunk-lid where the license plate would normally reside (shades of the GT40 again), and do very little to muffle the car, as a large-displacement Ford V10 would sound rather delicious under even part-throttle driving.

Concerning how to get the engine in and keep it there....I suspect that building a cradle around the motor/transaxle will be the first task, and then tying it into the existing front half of the car, as the stock T-bird front suspension actually works pretty good (SLA suspension....short/long arm vs. the crappy, positive-camber-gain macpherson strut garbage prevalent in Mustangs from 1979-to-present), and everything available for the 1994-2004 Mustang concerning front brake upgrades also works for the T-bird.

The cradle in the rear would have to possess a drop-out feature; the engine has to be able to go in and out. So far as separating the engine from the driver, I was initially thinking of using an engine cover similar to the Porsche Boxster/Cayman (it's a mid-engine car, not a rear engine layout like the 911), but I came up with the idea of simply insulating, and then walling off the engine compartment, like the original GT40, and also mimicking almost every modern supercar in that the engine compartment would be visible through either the existing rear glass window, or a custom-built, vented plexiglass/Lexan/polycarbonate/whatever the hell they are all built out of nowadays/etc. replacement unit.

No, it's probably not going to happen, as my initial vague cost estimates put building this car between $20K and $40K, but hey, a guy can dream, right? And hey, worst-case scenario, I could always shoehorn one of those motors in up front....

You may now return to your regularly-scheduled programming.

[89crownlx]

I was screwing around with the Bird a couple of days ago, taking some measurements, after coming up with an idea.

Due to the long wheelbase, and a bit of a cab-forward design of the MN12 platform....has anyone else noticed that this would be an excellent body for a mid-engine/transaxle conversion?

There is enough room for a Ford GT/GT40 transaxle AND a 6.8 V10, and not intrude upon the driver's compartment (the front seats, anyway). In the bargain, with the engine moved to the middle of the car, I can mod the tranny tunnel to gain more legroom, and at the same time, lower the floor so I can have more headroom.

The logic behind this is was to create a sort of low-buck GT40 (or more specifically, a stupidly-cheap Lambo Gallardo, lol), but to use a V10 engine instead of a supercharged V8, as I'm further appreciating the simplicity of a N/A engine and the ability to run almost any kind of gasoline without having to worry about detonation.

No, I'm not going to go out and cut the car apart right now, this was just something I came up with as a 'blue sky' moment.

Beyond that....I would route the exhaust over the top of the transaxle, and out of the trunk-lid where the license plate would normally reside (shades of the GT40 again), and do very little to muffle the car, as a large-displacement Ford V10 would sound rather delicious under even part-throttle driving.

Concerning how to get the engine in and keep it there....I suspect that building a cradle around the motor/transaxle will be the first task, and then tying it into the existing front half of the car, as the stock T-bird front suspension actually works pretty good (SLA suspension....short/long arm vs. the crappy, positive-camber-gain macpherson strut garbage prevalent in Mustangs from 1979-to-present), and everything available for the 1994-2004 Mustang concerning front brake upgrades also works for the T-bird.

The cradle in the rear would have to possess a drop-out feature; the engine has to be able to go in and out. So far as separating the engine from the driver, I was initially thinking of using an engine cover similar to the Porsche Boxster/Cayman (it's a mid-engine car, not a rear engine layout like the 911), but I came up with the idea of simply insulating, and then walling off the engine compartment, like the original GT40, and also mimicking almost every modern supercar in that the engine compartment would be visible through either the existing rear glass window, or a custom-built, vented plexiglass/Lexan/polycarbonate/whatever the hell they are all built out of nowadays/etc. replacement unit.

No, it's probably not going to happen, as my initial vague cost estimates put building this car between $20K and $40K, but hey, a guy can dream, right? And hey, worst-case scenario, I could always shoehorn one of those motors in up front....

You may now return to your regularly-scheduled programming.

that would be a bad car and soud cool with a V-10, i like it

[Pirate]

that would be a bad car and soud cool with a V-10, i like it

Yeah, that was kind of what I was thinking. The sound of a pissed-off Lambo V10 has me spoiled, lol.

[Pirate]

The P heads are in the machine shop. I'm trying something.

More later.

[1987cp]

This will only lead to tears.