KW's 1979 Ford LTD Landau

[friskyfrankie]

That would be a C-4, correct? Is there an indication on the dip stick? I remember Ford using Type F through '77 but some select vehicles used it through '79. So it could also be Dexron. Without an Owner's Manual or indication on the stick it is going to be a tough call with some Ford "gearheads" saying no Dexron, use Mercon.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

does that use F or Dexron? I think at some point it switched, though '79 is probably old enough to be F.

That would be a C-4, correct? Is there an indication on the dip stick? I remember Ford using Type F through '77 but some select vehicles used it through '79. So it could also be Dexron. Without an Owner's Manual or indication on the stick it is going to be a tough call with some Ford "gearheads" saying no Dexron, use Mercon.

It is a C4, or "SelectShift" as it was called for this model year. Owner's manual says to check the dipstick as "your application may require Type F or Dexron II".

I've checked the stick, this particular unit calls for Type F.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

A few days ago I popped a digital clock in since the analog unit was inop.


Seems to work good, and all the buttons respond nicely. Not quite the same, but I think it works fine.

Fitted the Handling Package rear sway bar on this morning. Control arms already had both holes on each side, so it was a straight bolt in affair.


Drove the car to my mom's since the '87 needs the alternator looked at. Driving I started smelling a funny, kinda burnt smell. Acceleration felt lazier than it had prior. Couldn't figure it out when I got to her place, so I didn't bother much determining it as it wasn't from underhood or the interior. When I went to leave, it felt like the parking brake was still on, and then it kinda freed up. The smell came back on the return trip. I didn't feel any pull left to right while driving at speed. When I got home, I felt all the wheels, and the LR wheel was very hot. I assume I have a dragging brake.

I'll preface this with two things:
First, I did wheel cylinders a few weeks back. Apparently '79-'80 cars list a separate wheel cylinder for 10" and 11" drums, while later applications just show the same cylinder for both. The only major difference between the two is bore diameter (7/8" for 10" and 15/16" for 11"). Since I was in a hurry, I got the 11" spec'd units as they were not special order availability at the parts store. They fit in the backing plates just like the 10" one and the hardware installed fine. Seems to stop fine. 10" wheel cylinders are available, but seem to be in short supply

Second, I use the parking brake to hold the car parking on inclines since I've found the transmission very hard to shift out of park if it rests on the parking pawl. I'm aware many rust belt folks don't use the parking brake if its not regularly used otherwise it might not come off when the release is pulled. I don't think this one was used much, so I'm wondering if the brake is not fully releasing and dragging the shoes on the left side. I hope that is the case so I can lubricate all the moving parts to the parking brake cable system and not ruin the drum and shoes.

[87gtVIC]

Hope you figure out the problem. Don’t want that car burned up. You can eat off that underside. You got yourself a nice car!

[TecNickal]

Zach definitely scored with this car. Finding a nearly all original car like this, at this age, for short money is worth it - if thats what you desire. It's original only once. Nor a rusty mess. Not hacked together by 8 different "mechanics". Everything that is wrong with the car, can be fixed over a few days. Interior is a time capsule. Even has the original headliner still.

[DerekTheGreat]

...Second, I use the parking brake to hold the car parking on inclines since I've found the transmission very hard to shift out of park if it rests on the parking pawl. I'm aware many rust belt folks don't use the parking brake if its not regularly used otherwise it might not come off when the release is pulled. I don't think this one was used much, so I'm wondering if the brake is not fully releasing and dragging the shoes on the left side. I hope that is the case so I can lubricate all the moving parts to the parking brake cable system and not ruin the drum and shoes.

That's exactly what they're intended for and why they're called "Parking brakes" and not "Emergency brakes" The hard to shift out of park bit is described in owner's manuals. The parking pawl isn't meant to hold the car's weight on an incline.

That's what I'd do: take the rear brakes apart enough to get at the cables and shoot ATF inside the cable's sheath, working the cable back and forth for a good while along with all the other moving bits. It might loosen up

[kishy]

If you feel so inclined, somewhere I have a 79-correct digital clock hanging around. It is different than the newer year one you used, but only subtly. Not sure how motivated you are by stuff like that being original-ish.

edit: I am not actually sure how "incorrect" your clock is. It's definitely not the late model box clock that I initially felt it was, but I feel like the 79 one I pulled looks different from what you've got there as well.

edit again: it was from a 1980 and the clock is different.

[1985crownvicltd85]

I havent seen many 79's but this is probably the nicest I'll ever see. Great find.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

If you feel so inclined, somewhere I have a 79-correct digital clock hanging around. It is different than the newer year one you used, but only subtly. Not sure how motivated you are by stuff like that being original-ish.

edit: I am not actually sure how "incorrect" your clock is. It's definitely not the late model box clock that I initially felt it was, but I feel like the 79 one I pulled looks different from what you've got there as well.

edit again: it was from a 1980 and the clock is different.

I think I'll keep rocking the '87 clock, but I appreciate the offer. They are different though, specifically the buttons but I know in '79 sales brochures the window around the numeral area was outlined with a chrome stripe. I did have to change the connector to the later style and massaged the later clock a bit for fitment. The early opening is not quite the same cutout size as the later cars, so something definitely happened with the dashboard maybe around 1981 or 1982. I have saved the original clock and connector pigtail, despite the early clock being inop. Wasn't exactly something I wanted to do, but considering it's likely not moving from that spot for a long time... well we'll just pretend nothing happened.

I do like the fact that donor car had the 8-track tape player stereo. I've only got the AM/FM stereo without tape. I do have 8-track tapes, but given how fragile a few have gotten, I doubt a car is any environment at this point to try and use them in. I lost Grand Funk Railroad in a conventional stereo a few years back when the bonding point failed.


I did also pop the LR wheel off and inspected the brake on that side. I definitely got it hot and glazed a shoe...




I knocked the glazing off the shoe with a touch of steel wool action and brake cleaner. Trying not to produce a lot of dust since I'm not sure if these rear shoes have been ever changed and the potential of encountering an asbestos brake lining. Regardless, the adjuster is moving freely, and the cable was lubricated up while I had the drum off. The parking brake seems to be moving properly when actuated.

I wonder if in my hubris with the wheel cylinders, I'm actually causing my own trouble:


I couldn't get the shoes to seat 100% at the top as I've done with so many cars, but I cannot recall if they seated 100% when I swapped cylinders. Either the rear hose is giving up and not letting fluid flow back properly, or the wheel cylinder cannot return in far enough to keep the brake off properly and is causing the trailing shoe to drag.

Recall these are cylinders for 11" drums. The only difference is the bore diameter, which is something unique to early Boxes with 10" drums. Around '81 or so, all cars use the same cylinder based on what I've found. There is also a 45 year old brake hose that could be of concern. I've got no issue swapping components since I'd rather not burn out a viable drum and shoe set.


Edit: Info only, the wet areas around the brake shoes is penetrating lubricant, not brake fluid.

[gadget73]

I wonder if there is a different proportioning valve for 10" vs 11" drums. That might explain the change in wheel cylinders. Maybe on the early ones it was the same and the braking power split was altered by changing the wheel cylinder and later they used the same cylinder but altered the prop valve.


anyway easy enough to see if its the hose. Crack the bleeder on the cylinder. If it releases and lets the shoe retract, thats your problem. I'd think it would be dragging on both sides, not one though.

Maybe verify you can push the cylinder back and forth with the shoes pulled out of it. Even without the fluid going anywhere if there is no load on either side the pistons should move back and forth freely in the bore.

[Tiggie]

I agree with gadget, check to see if it's holding hydraulic pressure by cracking open the bleeder. In addition to replacing the hose, I'd also blow out or replace the hard line to that wheel.
Could also experiment with the adjustment and loosen it up to see if that helps, or if it just takes up the slack by whatever is sticking.
My 90 likes to hang the rear brakes. It's the mechanism under the dash. But the 90 is a different setup that auto adjusts. Still might be worth looking to be sure all of the parking brake mechanical parts are moving nicely.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

Popped the drum back off again today and checked to see if the cylinder was holding pressure. Cracked the bleeder, nope. Fluid came out as I worked it around a touch, but it wouldn't compress down. Seems it as contracted as it'll get. I've got two proper 10" cylinders on order, and I just went ahead and ordered all the brake hoses. Figure there's no sense in fooling around with 45 year old hoses at this point.

[gadget73]

The one brake hose on the Conti I haven't done is that rear axle one. I bought it but the replacements were not the same as what I took off, and now I don't remember the fine points of why.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

Things are reasonably well along today. Actually got further than this spot, as the timing cover is off along with the intake. No snapped hardware, so that’s a plus. Car did have a fully intact nylon timing set, but that’s being swapped to a double roller chain set instead.

All of the water pump gaskets were definitely giving up, so the timing cover was not far from puking anyway.

Intake gaskets may have been done, but the bolt tightening didn’t feel consistent. Carb was not fastened well at all. Found some sludge buildup directly below the EGR ports in the valley, so working on cleaning that out prior to pulling the lifters.

Tomorrow will be lifter and cam pull, then start reinstalling new stuff.


Things of note:

1.) Parking brake cable is hung up on the driver side. Removed the spreader bar, brake freed up. Gotta appropriately R&R that, but getting that unjammed allowed me to get to SC.

2.) Ford really did pull a goober move with the water pump.

The water return nipple for the heater really is 1”, unlike all the prior and succeeding stuff that has used 3/4” ports. It is being replaced due to a high level of corrosion.

[gadget73]

I wonder if that pump is left over from something else that had 1" plumbing