KW's 1979 Ford LTD Landau

[gadget73]

I really find it funny that we're now in this fuzzy realm of inability to make things work with our cars because they are now too old, but also too new. "back in the day" people complained that EFI was too complex, and carbs were the only way to go. Now nobody knows how to work on old EFI and carbs are pure voodoo, especially anything with more than 2 vacuum lines in the entire engine bay.

[DerekTheGreat]

Yeah, that and the parts are becoming obscure and too expensive. I might end up having to convert to some aftermarket EFI system should ours shit the bed. Shouldn't have any issue getting parts for our LS equipped stuff, but the Ford SEFI and GM TBI stuff we've got rolling around has me thinking...

Also depends where you read. Over on that GMT400 forum, tons of good ole boys slappin' carbs down.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

I really find it funny that we're now in this fuzzy realm of inability to make things work with our cars because they are now too old, but also too new. "back in the day" people complained that EFI was too complex, and carbs were the only way to go. Now nobody knows how to work on old EFI and carbs are pure voodoo, especially anything with more than 2 vacuum lines in the entire engine bay.

I won't claim to be a carb wizard, and most of my knowledge is limited and rudimentary at best. Spent a fair time with a standalone tachometer and vacuum gauge to get the idle speed and idle circuits adjusted appropriately.

Personally I find the '87 pretty easy to work on. EEC-IV spits out trouble codes, and with a little FSM guidance, troubleshoot and diagnose the matter. DVOM usage might be required for certain things, but really the "old" EFI ain't that bad to get sorted out. Probably the only real trouble I've seen in specific instances was capacitor failure on the ECU and a recap job wouldn't bring it back around. Of the two cars I found that actually needed ECUs, neither would produce trouble codes and the test light just burned steady with the key on while probing the output pin and the diagnostic pins jumped. Both of those cars also ran really stupid with capacitor failure. I do specifically remember that '89 Mustang had one capacitor that had leaked and an entire leg had rotted off.

Yeah, that and the parts are becoming obscure and too expensive. I might end up having to convert to some aftermarket EFI system should ours shit the bed. Shouldn't have any issue getting parts for our LS equipped stuff, but the Ford SEFI and GM TBI stuff we've got rolling around has me thinking...

Also depends where you read. Over on that GMT400 forum, tons of good ole boys slappin' carbs down.

Still see plenty GMT400s rolling around down here. Not sure if TBI or Vortec, but usually the TBI ones I met were pretty robust unless people started monkeying about on the engine wiring or trying to delete things they thought weren't useful. Wonder if those GM ECUs have the same capacitor issue period Ford boards might also have... I mean an electrolytic capacitor life span based on operating conditions is perhaps 30-ish years?



I agree with gadget that it's just kinda silly where we stand. However, I will make a concession point, the demand and likelihood to find these cars (or similar period cars) at a shop is incredibly low due to being turned away for age unless its somewhere that specializes in '40s-'80s stuff, and actually is worth their salt.

[gadget73]

Doesn't make sense for anything other than a specialty shop but there always used to be the "I know a guy" thing. Now nobody does. I think they're all gone at this point and nobody picked it up.

[slack]

I agree with gadget that it's just kinda silly where we stand. However, I will make a concession point, the demand and likelihood to find these cars (or similar period cars) at a shop is incredibly low due to being turned away for age unless its somewhere that specializes in '40s-'80s stuff, and actually is worth their salt.

I actually just experienced this on a 'newer' car (newer to me at least...). My wife's 2004 Buick was due for an inspection so I brought it to this shop her parents use. When talking to the guy, he said he was happy to do the inspection but tries not to touch anything over 20 years old for repair work due to the fact they can end up costing him money when things go wrong or he can't find parts.

I wouldn't have been surprised if a shop told me that for my 87 or 78 but for a 2004 it made me feel like that Matt Damon gif. lol It didn't really hit me that 2004 was 21 years ago until he said that.

[DerekTheGreat]

...Still see plenty GMT400s rolling around down here. Not sure if TBI or Vortec, but usually the TBI ones I met were pretty robust unless people started monkeying about on the engine wiring or trying to delete things they thought weren't useful. Wonder if those GM ECUs have the same capacitor issue period Ford boards might also have... I mean an electrolytic capacitor life span based on operating conditions is perhaps 30-ish years?


I agree with gadget that it's just kinda silly where we stand. However, I will make a concession point, the demand and likelihood to find these cars (or similar period cars) at a shop is incredibly low due to being turned away for age unless its somewhere that specializes in '40s-'80s stuff, and actually is worth their salt.

The salt is eating the older ones away. Aside from my truck, most have the roundy, later dash and so I assume those are Vortecs. They're becoming harder to find at yards too, I remember when there were practically rows of 'em. I haven't had an ECM failure in a GMT400 or my Firebird. I've had the truck some seven or eight years now, I've never even had the ECM out. Wouldn't surprise me if it was rebuilt at some point.

Doesn't make sense for anything other than a specialty shop but there always used to be the "I know a guy" thing. Now nobody does. I think they're all gone at this point and nobody picked it up.

I think we're the ones who have picked it up, whether we want to or not. I struggle with the want & not.

I actually just experienced this on a 'newer' car (newer to me at least...). My wife's 2004 Buick was due for an inspection so I brought it to this shop her parents use. When talking to the guy, he said he was happy to do the inspection but tries not to touch anything over 20 years old for repair work due to the fact they can end up costing him money when things go wrong or he can't find parts.

I wouldn't have been surprised if a shop told me that for my 87 or 78 but for a 2004 it made me feel like that Matt Damon gif. lol It didn't really hit me that 2004 was 21 years ago until he said that.

Haha, yeah I can relate to this as well. I think of my wife's 2002 Tahoe as a new car, I remember the turds when I was in high school. But damn, that's 23 years ago now. Wild.

[gadget73]

yeah, I have frequently told people that if they want to have an older car, they need to know or become a competent mechanic otherwise it is not going to go well. The weirder the car, the more likely its going to be owner-maintained.

[DerekTheGreat]

Yeah, unfortunate but true statement.

"Complete Auto Service" states the sign out front. ::potential customer asks dude at counter if they'll drill out exhaust manifold bolts and redo them here or if they'll swap an engine.::
"We don't get into that."
"But the s-- never mind.. Do you know a shop which might?"
"You could try The Crusty Sphincter on the intersection of his-balls-at-your-chin."
"Th-thanks. I'll give them a call.."