1993 F-150 Flare Side

[DerekTheGreat]

...Has anyone ever heard of Ford using a different wiring harness for 302 E4OD's than they used with 351 E4OD's? My wife mentioned the story to one of her uncles. This dude supposedly had a lot of experience rebuilding transmissions before he switched to repairing heavy trucks. He told my wife that there are two, so if whoever swapped the 351 in initially didn't also change the wiring harness, we'd have problems. I'm skeptical of that, feel if the harness was different, something would've been wrong. Now, he might be thinking if we got the trans out of a later truck- I know they changed some stuff in the trans and ECM starting in '94 or '95, so perhaps that's what he's talking about. In that case, the harness is still the same, it's electrical stuff in the ECM/trans that were revised.

:bump:

If it's just a cracked pump... that's actually a pretty easy fix... once you get the trans out. Could just be the pump seal, but if you're in there... might as well replace the pump since disturbing it will probably cause the shaft seals to leak.

+1 second opinion shop needed. Shop I use always says worst case price, but bring it in and they'll let me know what all it needs. I'm typically out the door for well less since I maintain my stuff with some regularity.

I think "warped mid plate" is indeed what the dude said. I know very little about automatics, which is to say they either work right or don't to me. I check the fluid level, have the filter changed regularly and drive 'em easy- no pedal stabbing here and consistent throttle pressure. Angela though? She gets into the pedal hard at green lights on a regular basis and has a hard time maintaining speed- so she's constantly on and off the throttle. Nobody maintained this truck- it's saving grace is that it's 95% or so solid, regular cab, short box flare side and red as Angela has always wanted. The throttle position sensor was reading ~1.73V with no throttle input, so the trans bang shifted into every gear. It was probably driven around like that long enough to warp that plate and put extra stress on the pump.

[sly]

Yeah... warped midplate is a valvebody thing.

[DerekTheGreat]

Red is back with all gears. Trans seems ok, shifted hard into 2nd once when hot, but we've only got about 100 miles on it so far. Other than that, it behaves like the old trans did, just better. Converter is much tighter too. With the old trans I did get a code for "Excessive converter clutch slippage" the one time. This job ended up costing more as "someone" f'd up the shift linkage in the cab? So it got a replacement column and some cast tube that the shift lever/handle/thing moves. Still over $1,000 USD cheaper than the rebuild place, but hot damn. I argued with the dude quite a bit- as if we brought it to them all f'd up like that. It was either the tow truck driver or them- but it's us who ate that. And of course, the shifter seems too stiff and "1" isn't possible due to how they've got it adjusted. It's under warranty, so I'm not sure I should mess with the adjustment or even how to do it yet as I haven't looked at the service manual. Always something.

Question for those who have lost a trans, especially one that was "rebuilt." Were there any warning signs or did it just stop being a transmission? My experience is they just work, I've never lost one until now, but trying to see if I should be concerned about anything with this "new" trans.

[sly]

Torque converter on a fresh rebuild started slipping like mad after a week and completely lost it on the way to the place to have it fixed under their warranty. They had to send a rollback to get the car and then replaced the torque converter again. Said that happens sometimes. (bad parts new in box) They did try to get us to get a tow truck to bring it in, but since my wife was driving the car at the time I told them their problem has stranded my wife in an unfamiliar part of town, so they better get someone out there to pick her and the car up since it's their fault the car failed after a week and 100 miles. It completely failed within about 5 miles from the time it started acting up. This was the first rebuild of the trans in the 93... which other than the TC being replaced when we did the PI engine swap, is still going strong. Shop knew what they were doing for the internals since they've put up with 180K miles of beating from my family.

[Mainemantom]

I have had reverse fail in a old Ford O matic 2 speed. 61 ford galaxie
I have had slipping on the 2nd to 3rd shift with a FMX 68 ford Torino
Of course the OD failure on the AOD. 89 LTC
I also had a C-5 that ground itself to death. The case and bell housing cracked. Even the transmission shop had never seen that happen. 75 ford granada
Had a C-3 or C4 stay stuck in 1st gear. Mercury Zepher with a 6 cylinder
I had a C-6 tail shaft get so hot that the tail shaft case turned blue. That transmission shop had never seen that happen either. 1970 Lincoln Mk III
On rebuilds, I always put a new or reman converter. In Ca. I used a shop that were experts in rebuilding torque converters as well as transmissions.

[DerekTheGreat]

Torque converter on a fresh rebuild started slipping like mad after a week and completely lost it on the way to the place to have it fixed under their warranty. They had to send a rollback to get the car and then replaced the torque converter again. Said that happens sometimes. (bad parts new in box) They did try to get us to get a tow truck to bring it in, but since my wife was driving the car at the time I told them their problem has stranded my wife in an unfamiliar part of town, so they better get someone out there to pick her and the car up since it's their fault the car failed after a week and 100 miles. It completely failed within about 5 miles from the time it started acting up. This was the first rebuild of the trans in the 93... which other than the TC being replaced when we did the PI engine swap, is still going strong. Shop knew what they were doing for the internals since they've put up with 180K miles of beating from my family.

Oh no, a week.. Great, so we could just be motivating fine and then BAM! Did the converter just kill itself or did it also injure the trans? 180k miles out of it is fabulous though, I'd certainly be happy with that. They didn't give you any grief when you told them it was their fault and that they needed to grab the car and your wife? I had other concerns and the dude I spoke with (Rich) then tried a reversal in which he tried to say I was trying to get them to do a bunch of free work. Right, like I intentionally sabotaged my own F'n car. I wanted to make some sort of demand, "Look, I'm a repeat customer and I'm not trying to pull a fast one here. But you guys either eat the cost or I'll take my business elsewhere." I felt if I pushed that hard, we'd be taking our business elsewhere despite not having another place lined up. If I reason like I usually do with these places, it's not that bad and we're still ahead money wise. My wife was present for the entire conversation, said I handled it well (She's a property manager and deals with irate people on a daily basis). She's also miffed about the shifter deal and was surprised that they tried to spin it back on us. "Wait, so we paid them for parts they or the towing company destroyed and they didn't install it all correctly?" "Yep, we did." "How did they break that stuff?" "I have NFC. Maybe they didn't turn the key to run position and just reefed on the shifter until it let go?" "Ah, well they should at least get the job done right, so we should take it back to them." "I agree, but then we run the risk of something else breaking and it means about another two hours + gas & all that lost. When the weather warms up and the trans is out of the warranty period, I can see about adjusting it." That's where we left that.

I have had reverse fail in a old Ford O matic 2 speed. 61 ford galaxie
I have had slipping on the 2nd to 3rd shift with a FMX 68 ford Torino
Of course the OD failure on the AOD. 89 LTC
I also had a C-5 that ground itself to death. The case and bell housing cracked. Even the transmission shop had never seen that happen. 75 ford granada
Had a C-3 or C4 stay stuck in 1st gear. Mercury Zepher with a 6 cylinder
I had a C-6 tail shaft get so hot that the tail shaft case turned blue. That transmission shop had never seen that happen either. 1970 Lincoln Mk III
On rebuilds, I always put a new or reman converter. In Ca. I used a shop that were experts in rebuilding torque converters as well as transmissions.

You had a '70 Mark III? What a sweet car! I've always wanted one of those. So these trans failures, were the rebuilds that failed in short order? Do you remember why the Zepher's trans was stuck in 1st? At leas it moved...

The trans is doing it's thing rather well so far. I gave it half or 3/4 throttle from a light this morning after I got off the freeway- it shifted great. So far, I'm elated. As I spewed earlier, I'll eat all the B.S. we were dealt if it means I no longer have to worry about the engine or trans. Seems to be the way it goes around here or for me. They told me it looked to be freshly rebuilt and had a new converter as well. I'd like to call them to see if it's got Dex/Merc (Mercon III) or Mercon V in it so I know what to specify come trans filter change time. Should I bother or do those fluids mix well with each other?

[Tiggie]

I believe you can mix a Dex/Merc and Mercon V. I would call the trans shop to be sure you do what they want. That said, it shouldn't be leaking or need any fluid for a long long time.

Only rebuild issue I had was on a 4L60E. First shop left out a check ball (BB). Caused high pressure in places it shouldn't be. Drove and shifted fine but blew a servo cover off on the highway, and my wife just kept truckin' because it just kept going until she stopped miles down the road. The trans was empty of fluid, locked in 4th gear, and wouldn't move. It took about 200 miles for the servo to blow. Rebuild number 2 only had a problem leaking from the bell housing area. Multiple times. He eventually replaced some hard part up in the front of the trans.

[sly]

Oh no, a week.. Great, so we could just be motivating fine and then BAM! Did the converter just kill itself or did it also injure the trans? 180k miles out of it is fabulous though, I'd certainly be happy with that. They didn't give you any grief when you told them it was their fault and that they needed to grab the car and your wife? I had other concerns and the dude I spoke with (Rich) then tried a reversal in which he tried to say I was trying to get them to do a bunch of free work. Right, like I intentionally sabotaged my own F'n car. I wanted to make some sort of demand, "Look, I'm a repeat customer and I'm not trying to pull a fast one here. But you guys either eat the cost or I'll take my business elsewhere." I felt if I pushed that hard, we'd be taking our business elsewhere despite not having another place lined up. If I reason like I usually do with these places, it's not that bad and we're still ahead money wise. My wife was present for the entire conversation, said I handled it well (She's a property manager and deals with irate people on a daily basis). She's also miffed about the shifter deal and was surprised that they tried to spin it back on us. "Wait, so we paid them for parts they or the towing company destroyed and they didn't install it all correctly?" "Yep, we did." "How did they break that stuff?" "I have NFC. Maybe they didn't turn the key to run position and just reefed on the shifter until it let go?" "Ah, well they should at least get the job done right, so we should take it back to them." "I agree, but then we run the risk of something else breaking and it means about another two hours + gas & all that lost. When the weather warms up and the trans is out of the warranty period, I can see about adjusting it." That's where we left that.

They didn't push back too hard because we had made a good faith effort to get the car to them as soon as it started acting up. It was just the torque converter. Suspect the stator separated from the housing and just spun inside not allowing any torque transfer. Sounds like the guy you were dealing with was a lot more stubborn. Thankfully I know enough to talk jargon with the mechanics and they tend to not try to BS me on warranty work, especially something that is misadjusted. I also don't tend to bother them about timing to be complete and let them take their time with my crap. But not all places appreciate that. Good luck with yours.

[Mainemantom]

Derek, Yes I had a 1970 Mk III. Gold with gold leather. It had electrical issues and the transmission. That was back in the mid 80s. It was a huge heavy car. I would have rather had a MK IV.
I know for sure that the Granada's transmission was rebuilt. I commuted with the car and one day the transmission just destroyed itself. Had to put a new bell housing and trans.replaced.
The Zepher, had over 200,000 miles on it. Trans was replaced once. One day it would not get out of 1st gear. I don't remember what was done to fix it, but I sold it when I got it back.

[DerekTheGreat]

I believe you can mix a Dex/Merc and Mercon V. I would call the trans shop to be sure you do what they want. That said, it shouldn't be leaking or need any fluid for a long long time.

Only rebuild issue I had was on a 4L60E. First shop left out a check ball (BB). Caused high pressure in places it shouldn't be. Drove and shifted fine but blew a servo cover off on the highway, and my wife just kept truckin' because it just kept going until she stopped miles down the road. The trans was empty of fluid, locked in 4th gear, and wouldn't move. It took about 200 miles for the servo to blow. Rebuild number 2 only had a problem leaking from the bell housing area. Multiple times. He eventually replaced some hard part up in the front of the trans.

I'll give 'em a call. Funny enough, they called yesterday and asked if there was a jump-box in our car. Nope, wish there was just so I could have the satisfaction of telling that one guy that he could come and get it, but I wasn't going to make the drive. Although, that begs the question: if they didn't drive our car except to do service, what was a jump-box potentially doing in it? That was one of the dude's arguments, that they didn't drive the truck so how could they have broken the shift linkage?

Wow, 200 miles? That's impressive. Makes me wonder if I'd have noticed either. In my wife's case, she did notice the smell of burning oil and yet kept driving. I'd have pulled off somewhere and checked. Although in our case, I don't think it would've made a difference, given the type of failure.

My dad had the 4L60E in his Camaro rebuilt. It's never been right since. Once it's in gear it's ok, but it sometimes shifts goofy, like clutches are applying and then unapplying & reapplying rapidly. Feels like it's slipping. But if you get off the throttle and then get back on it, it's fine. It's been that way for over a decade now. Doesn't make it OK, but makes me wonder what's going on with it. Dad took it back to that shop (Gorden Chevrolet in Westland, I think) many times. Eventually the person he spoke to said he thought my dad would just sell it after getting it back.

They didn't push back too hard because we had made a good faith effort to get the car to them as soon as it started acting up. It was just the torque converter. Suspect the stator separated from the housing and just spun inside not allowing any torque transfer. Sounds like the guy you were dealing with was a lot more stubborn. Thankfully I know enough to talk jargon with the mechanics and they tend to not try to BS me on warranty work, especially something that is misadjusted. I also don't tend to bother them about timing to be complete and let them take their time with my crap. But not all places appreciate that. Good luck with yours.

Yes, very stubborn and quick to anger. How would you have handled someone essentially telling you that you delivered the vehicle to them broken? Homeslice didn't seem to care that I knew enough to say I didn't break the thing. Before that, both my wife and I tried to be very friendly with them and told 'em to take their time. His reaction makes me think they're guilty, but I don't think there's anything I can do, short of filing a small claims dealio.

Derek, Yes I had a 1970 Mk III. Gold with gold leather. It had electrical issues and the transmission. That was back in the mid 80s. It was a huge heavy car. I would have rather had a MK IV.
I know for sure that the Granada's transmission was rebuilt. I commuted with the car and one day the transmission just destroyed itself. Had to put a new bell housing and trans.replaced.
The Zepher, had over 200,000 miles on it. Trans was replaced once. One day it would not get out of 1st gear. I don't remember what was done to fix it, but I sold it when I got it back.

Aren't Mark IV's just as large? I like those too, but only the 1972 model year as those didn't have the ugly front or rear bumpers that came with the governments 5mph crash standards. Also the last year for high compression engines. A gold on gold '70 would've looked nice. What were you doing with that in the mid 80's? Didn't they have some sort of pseudo ABS system? Did yours have that option?

Wow, how many miles did you get out of the Granada's rebuilt trans before it grenaded?

[sly]

I would have countered every accusation with basically "How does driving it around like a sane human cause things to be misaligned. I haven't touched it with a wrench or screwdriver to change anything. That math don't work." It's hard to deal with folks like that. Most the folks I end up dealing with typically give up after 3-5 minutes in this style of conversation with me and tell me to just bring it in, if I'm not already standing in their lobby, and they'll check it out.

If they won't even do that, you might submit a complaint to the BBB... especially if they have a plaque hanging in their office.

[Mainemantom]

Derek, I agree with the 72 as it looks cleaner. About the same size as the MK III. I took my Mk III in on trade when I was buying and selling cars privately. I don't think mine had the ABS. Mine was just a ok car compared to others I have owned. The last time I saw it was in about 2005. It was being raffled off in some kind of fund raising event. I know my 79 Lincoln Versailles had the hydro boost brakes.
I may have got 30,000 miles on the rebuilt Granada transmission before it failed. That was a 1975 and a high mileage commuter car.
I just remembered that I bought a new Granada in 1980. 250 6 cylinder with a C-4. That transmission started slipping badly shortly after I bought it. A new trans was installed under warranty.

[DerekTheGreat]

I would have countered every accusation with basically "How does driving it around like a sane human cause things to be misaligned. I haven't touched it with a wrench or screwdriver to change anything. That math don't work." It's hard to deal with folks like that. Most the folks I end up dealing with typically give up after 3-5 minutes in this style of conversation with me and tell me to just bring it in, if I'm not already standing in their lobby, and they'll check it out.

If they won't even do that, you might submit a complaint to the BBB... especially if they have a plaque hanging in their office.

Yeah, I was going on with that dude for about ten minutes, or at least it felt that long. I wasn't standing in their lobby though. I did say pretty much the things you covered, made special emphasis on "Why would I F my own stuff up? It was working perfectly before. The place looks like a dump, on the inside too. No BBB anything on the wall haha. DIdn't have time to call them yesterday, might not today either. Got a bunch of running around to do after work. I will call and let them know what's going on. Why is it that I feel as if I'm being a Karen? Is it too much to want your stuff done right? Should I just take it as the other shops I called for both the engine & trans swaps wanted much more? Because that is how I'm feeling, the old, "You get what you pay for..."

Derek, I agree with the 72 as it looks cleaner. About the same size as the MK III. I took my Mk III in on trade when I was buying and selling cars privately. I don't think mine had the ABS. Mine was just a ok car compared to others I have owned. The last time I saw it was in about 2005. It was being raffled off in some kind of fund raising event. I know my 79 Lincoln Versailles had the hydro boost brakes.
I may have got 30,000 miles on the rebuilt Granada transmission before it failed. That was a 1975 and a high mileage commuter car.
I just remembered that I bought a new Granada in 1980. 250 6 cylinder with a C-4. That transmission started slipping badly shortly after I bought it. A new trans was installed under warranty.

That's neat. You should make a thread & talk about all these old cars and share pics. The big Continentals had hydroboost too, right? A '72 Mark IV is a good-looking car.

Did you custom order that Granada or buy it off the lot? Crazy the thing failed in short order. I guess it happens. Take it the replacement lasted as long as you owned it?

[sly]

Yeah... that's never fun dealing with a shop like that. Is this a new shop manager you're dealing with? If there's been turnover in personnel, this could be the issue. Might just have to tell them that you'll let others know to avoid them since they refuse to stand behind their work and then post reviews everywhere as well as reporting them to the BBB even if they don't support BBB stuff. If their paperwork has any "nationwide warranty" info, you may try calling the number on it and letting their warranty provider know they refuse to warranty their work and ask them where else you can take it.

[DerekTheGreat]

It's a new shop to me, that's for sure. The engine swap went well enough, so I thought I'd trust them with the trans job. I'm not sure what Rich's position is, I think he might manage people who do the work while also doing some work. Every time I've physically been there, I've dealt with Jerome, who has been friendly. Their "paperwork" is super sketchy without a whole lot of detail. I try to scan some in. Might leave a review, for whatever it's worth.