Pulling out dents and blending paint, and other questions. (Box)

[DrHax]

Hey guys.

My 1986 crown victoria has a quite a life in its 189,553 mile trip in 30 years.. Including getting whacked a few times and some surface rust spots.

For you lot who have actually done some body work on these cars what is the best way to pop out the dents, and get rid of the surface rust without respraying the entire car. There's a little local auto "parts" store that only seems to specialize in paints. They can match original factory colours and stick them in a spray can for you. I've seen the results done for a 2001 metallic green mini cooper. Works great for chips.

Now here's the thing. I have some experience with hammering out dents, but those were all on VW panels. And I was using a hammer and a block of wood to "pop" out the massive dent in the trunk of a 1966 bug that had a boat fall on it. Came out great considering the trunk was fucked to begin with. But that technique would only really work on panels I could remove. The massive dents in between the two doors on the passenger side won't work like that.

So what is the best way to approach fixing the god damn dents

repairing surface rust and repainting areas to blend in without respraying the whole car.

and for my final question. I have that rubber side trim that is just banana peeling and the metal backing in the area where it got whacked is rusting. Any advice on how to remove that crap?

[slack]

Hey guys.
repairing surface rust and repainting areas to blend in without respraying the whole car.

I'm by no means and expert but I have attempted this DIY style. (See my '89 CV front end).

For rust that's not "seen" (underbody, etc) I grind down to as close as bare metal as I can and use an unhealthy amount of POR-15 on it. I know POR-15 says you can use it on your body panels and then top coat it with your paint of choice. I haven't tried this yet (though I will be probably later this summer) but I've read mixed reviews from other forums.

For surface rust and painting on body panels, I've never used a rattle can. I've only used a paint gun. You have to make sure you have a decent pressure regulator and an evaporator inline. Nothing will screw your day like spending hours prepping and painting just to have water from the compressor blast all over everything. It's not the end of the world but an unneeded headache. You can either order matching paint online or in your case, you have a store that can match. I would actually see if they can match the current color of your car with it's possibly faded paint instead of an OEM reproduction. Unfortunately, I also don't have any experience in blending. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that. I was lucky enough that the stuff I've done so far has matched decent enough.

In the past, I've sanded down to as close to bare metal as I could get... if it's just surface rust, this should sand the rust off as well for the most part. Then hit it with a coat or two of primer. Sanding between coats. Then a few coats of color... again standing between coats. Then a few coats of clear.... sanding... always sanding... After a few days, wet sand with super super fine sand paper to get the gloss finish.

Like I said, I'm miles away from being an expert but hopefully this post can be a jumping point for someone who's better at this stuff than me to chime in and elaborate.

Best of luck!

Edit: I just realized, the '87 trunk that I was going to put on my car, I painted with a rattle can... So I have done it... it didn't come out too well up close. haha

[87gtVIC]

You provide pictures and I can tell you how to deal with everything.

Also be prepared for your "surface rust" to be something much worse.

[gadget73]

The last time I had some rust repair done on my car, we ended up replacing every panel that could be unbolted from the car except the trunk lid and one fender. It also does retain an original header panel, but thats the extent of the original body parts. Part of the roof and hunks of both rear quarter panels got replaced too.

[DerekTheGreat]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if the car is going to see corrosive environments (excessive moisture, salt) after the repairs are done expect to see the rot return fast if not faster. I hate body work, it's pretty involved if you want to do it right. Like David said though, where you see rust on the surface be prepared for it to be 3x worse where you can't see it. You're better off cutting that stuff out or replacing the entire panel if possible. Whatever you do, don't leave any rust behind as that will just continue to oxidize. Also, where possible save as much of the original primer & ecoat layers as you can as those are what provide the magical rust protection. The mid to late 80's were actually the best periods for metal pretreatment & corrosion resistance. Our cars got thick(ish) steel and galvanizing in some areas plus zinc phosphate and leaded E-coat. Then they got high quality primer sealer, basecoat and clear coat. Doesn't get any better than that since in order for the paint system to be on the car it had to pass a barrage of tests like impact, adhesion, humidity, salt spray & cyclic corrosion. The aftermarket world doesn't have the same standards (if any) and unless you're tight with a guy who runs a phosphate/ecoat line you'll never come close to the durability the factory gave you. They make phosphate conversion wipes (Bonderite 1455-W) but even those are marginal compared to the traditional dip method. I've heard good things about Paint Over Rust 15, from what I've heard it actually bonds well to rust and seals out oxygen so whatever you paint with it won't corrode again, although I have no first hand experience with it. Buddy says whatever it gets on it stays on so don't wear anything you care about when using it.

[DrHax]

Good to know. Finding body panels though will be a pain and probably cost more then the price of the car. I Bought it for 600. The worst of it is on the doors, The drivers mirror has rust around it, and the passenger doors have been hit by something so there's a baseball sized dent inbetween the doors and the trim under it has started to rust.

The drivers front fender has two rust spots around where the trim is. Still that post above explains why restorations don't seem to last more then 10 years usually. If the car

The only rust through is in the flat part of the trunk where it mounts to the frame. Those two holes on the mounting bracket got dirt caked in there from the way the rear wheels fling mud and crap. So I'm going to be cutting out some thicker metal and welding that up nice and tight. The underside of the car is very clean. As long as the floor pans are A-okay if push comes to shove and the rest of the car's body rusts out I may just go down the hotrod route and get a 1950's (or earlier) car and slap it onto the pre existsing floorpan.

I love this car dearly but finding "Rust free" body parts in mn is a bit of a joke. They don't really exist and if they do well you're paying an arm and a leg for them. Even the panels sold as rust free have rust on them. It's sad.

[DerekTheGreat]

PITA indeed. Sounds like you're better off just driving the snot out of it until it gives up the ghost. That's what I'd do. Of all the testing I've done and been a part of with paint systems, corrosion & how well a paint system resists it is difficult to describe and no one else in the industry talks about it like I do but I'll give it a shot. But first, the basics.. Salt spray. There are a lot of different tests but in the states you'll often come across the "ASTM B117" method at various lengths. Salt spray resistance is measured in hours.. Most anything exterior automotive is tested to 504 - 1008 hours. 504 ROUGHLY translates to 5 years and 1008 to ten but really isn't realistic. What happens is coupons are placed in chambers and then subjected to a specific mixture of salt plus water which is then fogged onto the coupons. The chamber is always moist thus where the subjectivity comes in. Next you've got my favorite, cyclic corrosion. This cycles conditions of dry, hot, damp & salty to induce corrosion. Coupons from say an SAE J2334 chamber look the most "real world" and is my preferred test method. 30 cycles of that is roughly 5 years. One cycle is one week..

Anyway, even coupons that aren't scribed will eventually corrode and blister, the edges (usually always low coating thickness) being the first to go or any place where there is poor adhesion... This is where my theory of paint system life comes in. Every system has a finite life, only so much exposure to the elements it can handle before it shows. So IMO, things that are starting to rust have reached that point and then seem to explode out of control from there. "Two years ago my fenders didn't have holes!"

[87gtVIC]

Good to know. Finding body panels though will be a pain and probably cost more then the price of the car. I Bought it for 600. The worst of it is on the doors, The drivers mirror has rust around it, and the passenger doors have been hit by something so there's a baseball sized dent inbetween the doors and the trim under it has started to rust.

The drivers front fender has two rust spots around where the trim is. Still that post above explains why restorations don't seem to last more then 10 years usually. If the car

The only rust through is in the flat part of the trunk where it mounts to the frame. Those two holes on the mounting bracket got dirt caked in there from the way the rear wheels fling mud and crap. So I'm going to be cutting out some thicker metal and welding that up nice and tight. The underside of the car is very clean. As long as the floor pans are A-okay if push comes to shove and the rest of the car's body rusts out I may just go down the hotrod route and get a 1950's (or earlier) car and slap it onto the pre existsing floorpan.

I love this car dearly but finding "Rust free" body parts in mn is a bit of a joke. They don't really exist and if they do well you're paying an arm and a leg for them. Even the panels sold as rust free have rust on them. It's sad.

The fender is junk. No fixing that other then cutting it out until you reach clean metal on the back side. VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY common on these cars. Same for that trunk rust.

Mirror and the rust by the dent could be surface as you describe.

[gadget73]

Sounds like its time to make friends in the southern states where rust doesn't really exist so much. I had a hell of a time finding decent parts for my car in the mid atlantic region, so I can't imagine what its like up there.

[pantera77]

Slap some bondo on it, rattle can it, sell it and buy a rust free car.

[DrHax]

Slap some bondo on it, rattle can it, sell it and buy a rust free car.

In mn? I'm better off with what I have. .. It's really horrific here. Buying a rust free car would require going OUT OF STATE. Pan is perfectly fine..The underside is cherry. Seriously when I was crawling under this car I was impressed. Fender might be fucked but what ever. The trunk is isolated and its flat metal.

The whole Buy another car philosophy is hard as fuck in MN. Cash for clunkers took out so many god damn good cars around here and destroyed the markets. You don't see older cars and now they're fetching a premium price. I was able to get my crown victoria for 600 after pointing out the rust in the trunk which they did not know about! Seriously guys just go browse Minneapolis craigslist and come back and see what rust free crap exists out here. If a rust free car is for sale in mn It's for 5k+. My car has a few battle scars but for a daily driver I am happy with it. I just want to make it look a bit nicer. Pound out the dents.. Fix some of the rust. I am broke ass 21 year old working at a walmart TLE. Just forking up the 600 dollars was a challenge.

There's a saying in MN "It's rust free.. The rust is free with the car!"

[pantera77]

In mn? I'm better off with what I have. .. It's really horrific here. Buying a rust free car would require going OUT OF STATE.

Ya, that's kinda the whole point, these cars are a dime a dozen out west and down south. You can find clean, rust free examples all day long for under a grand. Rust fucking sucks, and spending a little more on a cancer free car is a worth while investment.

Trust me, I live in Buffalo, you don't get deeper into the rust belt then here. Seeing a car from the late 90's/early 00's on the road is a rare sight nowadays.

With that said I currently drive a $500 car with both front fenders loaded with bondo, a rusty dogleg and a frame I had to patch.

If you want it to look semi decent, do what you said, pound out the dents and bondo the rust. Don't be surprised when it comes back twice as worse.
If you want it fixed right buy a rust free trunk lid and fenders.

And if you do plan on keeping the car for a while, thoroughly wash the underside, flush out the frame rails and oil the fuck out of it every fall. Only way to keep these old cars alive in the rust belt, even if you find a clean example, 5 winters around here and it'll have holes all over. Old iron loves to rot.

[DerekTheGreat]

We were in southern FL and all over the surrounding states. We saw rusty cars and finding rust free stuff worth buying wasn't worth what they were asking. Not to say we didn't see some good stuff but those things were snatched up just hours after they were posted so to say you've got competition is putting it lightly. We haven't given up hope but feel we'd have better luck out west like in Arizona, Tey-haas or Comifornia but we don't know anyone out those ways to bunk up with and for all the money we'd waste getting out there and back we might as well pay the fuckers that do it for profit... Anyway, Pantera, has oiling your stuff made a difference? I feel its the best thing you can do but considering you get more salt than average I'd like to hear what you think. I feel even with oiling stuff the frame & floor pans will be solid but rust will still manifest at edges like wheel lips and stuff.