Aero degeriatrification, clothtop delete

[rezwrrd]

Hey all,

The rips/tears, discoloration, lichen, and "grandpa factor" of my blue/blue clothtop '97 GM annoyed me when I got the car, but I overlooked them because I needed something cheap that ran. Last week, my fiancée spotted a same-year GM without the granny accessories and convinced me to take the luggage rack off the trunk. Ever since seeing how much sleeker the car looks with that minor detail removed, I can't stop thinking about that hideous roof. Mot of what I found using the search was either for removing box vinyl, or "just don't." The car needs new paint anyway, so I'm not really afraid of what it looks like underneath.

Before trunk rack removal:


After:




Does anyone know if there are bolts under the headliner for this model? (I need to get in there for visor wiring anyway, so that's not a huge concern.)

Any thoughts or words of discouragement before I get started?

[kishy]

This particular style of roof is mounted on a fiberglass frame and is almost certainly screwed/bolted/riveted through the sheet metal of the roof. These roofs were installed by a couple of possible outfitters from year to year and I'm not sure of the specifics of how it's installed on an aero.

I can't help with removal information (haven't done it, only studied a couple in junkyards) but I can tell you that you're going far beyond just painting what's underneath. The rear window glass is 90% likely different and there are very likely alterations to the roofline, it may be quite challenging to make this car look 'correct' with the roof removed.

[rezwrrd]

Thanks for the quick response! I noticed the difference in glass shape between the cloth roof and slicktop, but from what I see on the inside of my back windows, it looks like the same glass. They covered up about an inch of the glass, clearly visible on the inside of the rear window. The interior trim is the same as the slicktop.

it may be quite challenging to make this car look 'correct' with the roof removed.

One might argue that it's difficult to make it look correct with the roof there.

There's an identical '96 in the scrapyard near me, with the exact same top. I'll take a closer look under the cloth and the headliner before I commit to the project on my own car. I had heard that while the boxes had glass and roofline alterations, the aeros were generally just glued-on screwed-on fiberglass, but I've never seen pictures of what's under the aero roof.

If there do turn out to be major roofline and glass differences, I'll probably just leave it on and live with it. (Anyone have any tips on removing lichen? )

[kishy]

If you can see that the glass is just covered up, and interior trim does not match the profile of the ragtop, then this is a pretty half-assed install...or maybe they just stopped doing it that way for aeros. Probably makes this job easier for you.

I'd go spend some time with the junkyard car. It will probably be helpful for you to know exactly how it's attached before you dig in.

I love these roofs on the right car. It doesn't look terrible on an aero but if there's anywhere it belongs, it's on a box. Black cloth top on a black box, with red pinstripes and red interior (which may or may not be my car).

[rezwrrd]

It's definitely a better look for a box. If I only had a box....

If my sources are correct, Aeros never came with a top from the factory. So it's probably a dealer add-on. If my sources are correct.
http://www.cvpi.org/archives/p71inte.../wsdindex.html

I'll take pics of whatever I find in the yard, in case anyone else is considering similar modifications.

[miamibob]

With the amount of work probably involved and the result obtained, I'd find a way to clean it!!

[Ziggy]

They call it a "Sim Top", or simulated convertible top. The screws you can see at the belt molding running across the back are mounting screws, and will need to be removed. There the sides will be screwed in the door jambs, and there should be mounting screws across the front as well, but those may be obscured by the windshield molding. Typically, the cloth on this style top is attached to the fiberglass shell prior to installation, so all of the mounting screws *should be visible with some searching. The top is made to be semi permanent, as if you have to remove the back glass at any point, the sim top has to come off before the new glass can be installed. If you have an upholstery shop near you, give them a call, they should be able to tell you what you can expect underneath that top. Hopefully, nothing more than a couple of foam blocks to keep the fiberglass from rubbing through the factory paint.

Just remember, any place that you remove a screw, there will be a hole that is a place for the 4 letter "R" word to start to develop.

You'll probably be apalled at the screws that they used to put those pieces on the car, too. Basically decking screws, typically.

[rezwrrd]

I've pulled off a few of the fiberglass panels on the tops of the doors, and they came off easily enough. A few screw holes and some adhesive-backed foam spacers. The window frame paint looks good, just really dusty. And of course, with several holes. Looks like I've got some filling ahead of me.

From what I've already seen of the screws along the beltline, I've got my work cut out for me. I do have a set of backout bits, and I'll probably need to use them. The screws under the front window, hidden under the trunklid, appear to be the rustiest offenders. So far. I'm expecting to see many more screws (and holes) and a metric crap-ton of adhesive foam (and the corresponding residue). I've got time for a junkyard trip tomorrow, so hopefully I can get a better idea of what I'm up against here. I tried peeking under the front corners of the windshield, but couldn't get a good look without bending it too much.

I took a few pictures inside the rear window. Looks like the defroster grid goes the whole way across! Thanks for the tip on replacing the rear window, Ziggy. I never would have thought of that. Kind of makes sense, though.





I guess I'll decide tomorrow whether this project is too much or not. I haven't done anything irreversible or terribly stupid yet. (Except, perhaps, to have bought the car with that roof in the first place! )

[Ziggy]

So... You're really at a crossroads... How much time and money do you want to invest in this cheap, running vehicle?

[rezwrrd]

[bandwidth warning - lots of photos!]

Crossroads be damned! I decided to go for it. It actually didn't take much work to get the roof off. 90% of the effort was stripping the glue and filling the holes. I practiced on the car in the junkyard to get the peeling process down before I attempted anything on my own car. Both cars were "topless" within the same day; the last week and a half was just cleanup.

The cloth was glued under the side weatherstripping, and there were fasteners under the fabric in front. The junkyard car (a '96) had three screws, while my car (a '95) had five rivets. I peeled up the cloth from the front corners until I could get to the screws/rivets, which were in a line 6-9" behind the windshield weatherstripping. Pop-pop with the drill, and (rivet) heads were rolling.




Under the trunk lid were five(ish) rusty deck screws. Those were probably the worst. The trim on the rear quarters concealed two screws on the junkyard car and a rivet each side of mine. After removing trim and screws/rivets, I was able to peel the fiberglass right off. It definitely helped that it was a warm day. When I tried the same on my car that evening, it had cooled down and it was a bit harder.




I was able to strip the junkyard car by myself, but I had my buddy help me when I did my own. Eagerness to help with car projects is just one of the many reasons he's my best man. Willingness to work in exchange for root beer is another.






There was tape around the rear window and the rear quarter windows. A bit of razor work took off the residue neatly. It made a huge improvement in rear visibility.




The one part that I know I need to replace is the weatherstripping around the rear window, which was cut away at the bottom. It also seems like there's supposed to be a piece of trim or something between the window and the trunklid. I'm working on replacement rear pillar emblems, because whoever put the top on broke the emblems clean off.






The next day, after more scraping:




One more:


I'm happy with the progress so far. I've sealed all the holes and I'm prepping the roof for painting. Cutting the adhesive off with a razor scraper before sanding seems to work well enough. Not sure what I'd do if I wasn't planning on painting. It looks like I got off relatively easy compared to some of you guys with boxes! I wouldn't say this counts as a slicktop "conversion," more like a leisurely afternoon of goof-off and bondo.

[Hearsesrock427]

What a difference. She looks a LOT better without that top. I'm pleasantly surprised! Really like how she gives off the decommissioned cop car vibe off even more now. She was already leaning that way thanks to those rims. But the slicktop conversion just sealed the deal. And improved rear visibility! Can't argue with that. Note to self: buy a dark blue non cloth-top aero GM at some point soon. They are sexy beasts.

And you definitely had an easier time with the glue, haha. Unlike on boxes, you just have a couple little gobs in the center. Us box folk have vertical and horizontal lines of glue , spread out like frosting on a cake. No screws. Just lots and lots of glue. And lots more after that. There's also some screws for the metal bar (tiara bar?) that goes across the roof just ahead of the vinyl top, which can't easily be removed unless you take out the headliner.

[Mainemantom]

You did a good job quickly even though I liked the carriage top.

[rezwrrd]

Thanks! I worried as I was doing it, but it was totally worth it. I couldn't find much on removing aero tops, aside from a TC or two. I did see a lot on box tops, which look like a major ordeal between the headliner removal, unfinished sections, smaller rear windows, and insidious adhesive. I was pretty worried about the possibility of hidden screws under the headliner.

The center caps are off a Mountaineer. They were intended to be used with rims, but I like the way they go with my steelies. I almost got P71 center caps, but my Mercury pride got the better of me.

My friend hates those ex-cop cars with a passion, but he helped me achieve the similar look on the condition that I never install a spotlight. From what I've heard, they're nothing but trouble anyway.

Night shots!

[LithiumCobalt]

Looks good, nice work. I think the cloth tops are awful. Any aero with any top besides the factory hard top doesn't look right, in my opinion. Amazing how many dealers try to tart these cars up by tacking on a bunch of excessively shitty aftermarket bling to them. Let's face it, they never would have put this stuff on them if people didn't buy them that way new. It just proves the fact that just because you have money doesn't mean you have taste. Good choice to deep six the luggage rack too.

Now for my box model, it's naked without a topper.

[rezwrrd]

Looks good, nice work. I think the cloth tops are awful. Any aero with any top besides the factory hard top doesn't look right, in my opinion. Amazing how many dealers try to tart these cars up by tacking on a bunch of excessively shitty aftermarket bling to them. Let's face it, they never would have put this stuff on them if people didn't buy them that way new. It just proves the fact that just because you have money doesn't mean you have taste. Good choice to deep six the luggage rack too.

Now for my box model, it's naked without a topper.

I still can't figure out why people still buy square tops tacked onto round cars. They look good on square cars like boxes and Caddies, but not on aeros, Tauruses, or Camries. From what I've heard, they came about in the late twenties to look old-school, and have been in and out ever since. I'm amazed at some of the things people seem to be okay with on new cars.

I'm still on the fence about the luggage rack, actually. I'm considering blacking it out and putting it back on. The wing-thing was an immense aid in backing and parallel parking, and coming from a 3-door hatchback I can use all the help I can get. If I do end up putting it back on, though, it's going to have some kind of hooks for bungee cords so I can put actual luggage (or something) on it if the need ever arises. I hate fake bling, but if I can make it useful I might keep it.