Opinion please.............R134

[Toploader]

Years ago I drove my '86 Tudor to South Bend, Indiana for the national Studebaker/Packard/Avanti meet
While there the R12 crapped out in 100 plus temps........I had no choice but to bring the car to Jordan Ford, yes they bent me over replacing the compressor dryer etc......and converting to 134. For the "privilege' I forked out $1,200.00 large....this in 2002.

Anyway, now that the summer is upon us, what do you think I should expect as far as temps coming out of the registers?
I know R12 was better, but what is the realistic lowest temp 134 can produce?

Today I had the car at the shop, and was told the spec for 134 is 75% of what the R12 amount was. I believe he put in 2.5 pounds, but the car seems to be a bit warmer than usual.

So what temp can I realistically expect??

[gadget73]

You should see vent temps in the 40s if things are working properly. If there is too much oil, too much or not enough charge, restrictions in the orifice tube, a weak clutch fan, bent fins in the condenser, a partial clog in the condenser, dirt in the fins of the evaporator, problems with the blend door seal, or problems with the climate control, all of that might have some effect on how cold it gets. I get a steady 42 out of the Continental with a pile of old and used parts and relatively minimal effort put forth to make it all work.

[Toploader]

One other thing I forgot to mention.....if I have the fan on low, the vent temps will be lowest.....on high the temp out of the vents is higher, why is that??

You should see vent temps in the 40s if things are working properly. If there is too much oil, too much or not enough charge, restrictions in the orifice tube, a weak clutch fan, bent fins in the condenser, a partial clog in the condenser, dirt in the fins of the evaporator, problems with the blend door seal, or problems with the climate control, all of that might have some effect on how cold it gets. I get a steady 42 out of the Continental with a pile of old and used parts and relatively minimal effort put forth to make it all work.

[gadget73]

Thats actually normal. The amount of heat you're dumping into the AC system varies by how much air you push through it. Less air = less heat load. If the system doesn't have enough capacity to take all of the heat that the blower on high pushes into it, the vent temperatures go up. Even when things work absolutely perfectly its normal, but the weaker the AC is, the more the vent temps go up with airflow.

[Toploader]

You know on my Avanti which still has R-12 I can get the temps down on low to about 32 degrees!!

Thats actually normal. The amount of heat you're dumping into the AC system varies by how much air you push through it. Less air = less heat load. If the system doesn't have enough capacity to take all of the heat that the blower on high pushes into it, the vent temperatures go up. Even when things work absolutely perfectly its normal, but the weaker the AC is, the more the vent temps go up with airflow.

[gadget73]

R12 usually does have more cooling capacity. The Panther stuff is good enough that even with the less efficient R134a it still performs reasonably well as long as the system is in good condition otherwise. If you upgrade the condenser it should do better though.

[sly]

After changing the condenser in my 93, it seems to work a LOT better than it ever has since I've owned it (this includes the original R12 that was in it). The new condenser will dump more heat into the radiator though, so there's that. We've already had 100F days here and I've been able to turn the fan down one notch on my 10-15 minute drive home. I'll have to get my thermometer out and see how cold it's actually getting one of these days.

[Rodentkiller]

If you have a efficent cooling system for that exchange of heat for cold to take place you will get cold with a air condishing system converted to R134, but if you have a cooling system not up to part you will experience warm air out of the ducts trust me on this and yes I do have to deal with 110degf on average during the summer so A/C is mandatory.

[Toploader]

This morning it was 65 degrees, I tested the a/c...out of the dash vents my temp gauge showed 45 degrees on low fan.....I assume this is acceptable, although I have no idea what it would be with temps in the 80's or 90's?

Thats actually normal. The amount of heat you're dumping into the AC system varies by how much air you push through it. Less air = less heat load. If the system doesn't have enough capacity to take all of the heat that the blower on high pushes into it, the vent temperatures go up. Even when things work absolutely perfectly its normal, but the weaker the AC is, the more the vent temps go up with airflow.

[gadget73]

Not hot enough to really tell, give it till next week and you'll know.


I figure eventually the condenser in the Towncar will justify replacement. I'm curious how the AC will perform then. Idle performance in that car sucks, but the underdrive pullies that spin the compressor and fan slower probably are not helping that.

[Rodentkiller]

I had to convert to r134 due to my A/C crapping out on a hot day so I went to a A/C shop and was told that the law required r134 conversion due to state of California banning r12 causing a hole in the Ozone layer.

[Kodachrome Wolf]

I had to convert to r134 due to my A/C crapping out on a hot day so I went to a A/C shop and was told that the law required r134 conversion due to state of California banning r12 causing a hole in the Ozone layer.

R12 is also considerably more expensive these days and you’re lucky if anyone has some. R134a is considerably easier to come by and it’s not terribly expensive.

Both my cars are R134a (‘87 was converted) and they stay plenty cold. The wagon’s A/C suffers a bit at idle given lack of airflow over the condenser, but moving at speed and it works just as well as the sedan’s A/C.

[Toploader]

Whatever heat there is in Vegas, should stay in Vegas.....ya know I just had to say that

If you have a efficent cooling system for that exchange of heat for cold to take place you will get cold with a air condishing system converted to R134, but if you have a cooling system not up to part you will experience warm air out of the ducts trust me on this and yes I do have to deal with 110degf on average during the summer so A/C is mandatory.

[Toploader]

This past winter I scored a full case of one pound cans of R12.....the price was not terrible $250.00 with shipping....also picked up a few cans of mineral oil .Btw, plenty of R12 on E-bay....the prices are coming down as fewer and fewer cars will need it.

R12 is also considerably more expensive these days and you’re lucky if anyone has some. R134a is considerably easier to come by and it’s not terribly expensive.

Both my cars are R134a (‘87 was converted) and they stay plenty cold. The wagon’s A/C suffers a bit at idle given lack of airflow over the condenser, but moving at speed and it works just as well as the sedan’s A/C.

[gadget73]

If you're going R12, I'd still rebuild the system. New O rings, drier, orifice tube, plus a flush to get all of the old oil out, and a refill of the proper mineral oil. I'd probably also unbolt the compressor and dump out whatever oil you can. Don't flush the compressor, it will ruin it. No point in charging a leaky, underperforming system with any type of refrigerant.