A/C Dead, options?

[gadget73]

R12 will perform better, R134a is more easily obtained. Prices on R12 have gotten less retarded over the years just because so few things use it anymore but you will need a license to legally buy it. R134a conversions in these cars do work fairly well, but an updated condenser will improve that.

Change the drier, change all the O-rings, flush the system, replace the orifice tube. Charge with oil, vacuum it and see if anything leaks. Its the same procedure for any refrigerant system, the only variable is what juice and what oil. R12 wants mineral oil, R134a conversions want ester oil.

[kishy]

Looks like I bipolared the crap out of that whole "not gonna DIY" this.

Ordered a cheap Chinese vacuum pump, cheap Chinese manifold/gauge set, flush nozzle, and working out the finer details of the remaining needed things. That discharge line is a pain to try to get one's hands on for a not-offensive amount, this side of the border. I really do not want to reuse it, due to the rusty metal muffler thing on it. Big opportunity for leaks. Not to mention that thing is in the way when changing spark plugs. Amazon shows it "temporarily out of stock", I'm ordering it and we'll see if it restocks any time soon (that might just be their way of indicating it's a special order from the manufacturer, it's showing up that way from Summit and RockAuto).

Overall to-do list is...

PARTS (whole system)
compressor: buy reman, not bought yet
discharge line: buy new, not bought yet
condenser: flush existing
liquid line: cannot source new, reuse old, replace o-rings
orifice tube: have new on-hand
evaporator: flush existing
accumulator: have new on-hand (had it awhile, but rubber caps still on both ends)
pressure switch: reuse existing, replace if not behaving within spec when observed with gauge set
suction line: ordered, on the way
134A conversion fittings (because manifold comes with 134A quick-connects): have used ones on-hand, weighing option of buying new ones, or might come included in kit if buying 12A refrigerant. Would prefer to just use the R12 fittings but there doesn't seem to be an R12 quick connect available for the hoses with the cheap manifolds.

TOOLS
gauge set/manifold: ordered, on the way
vacuum pump: ordered, on the way
oil for vacuum pump: not included with pump, need to figure out what to put in it.

MATERIALS
refrigerant: need to decide what to use still (12A such as Red Tek or Duracool, or proper 134A)
oil: thinking I should still stick with ester oil, since fine traces of the old stuff may remain
flushing agent: whatever I can source locally that is designed for AC systems

---

Which means my current summarized questions are:

1 - confirmation that compressor replacement is a "good idea" given that there is a visible leak at the rear gasket? Would stop-leak be a viable option for this? Pics above.

2 - Thoughts on the "12A" hydrocarbon refrigerants? Reviews are a mixed bag but it sounds like if it's done properly they perform as intended. There's also the "not releasing environmentally unfriendly refrigerants" thing assuming I screw something up.

3 - Confirmation that ester oil is still the way to go, or does compressor replacement basically make this a non-issue?

4 - earlier on, it was mentioned that there are "good" and "bad" 134A conversion fittings. I don't see a way of identifying the good from the bad. If "cheap part store ones" are problematic, then the alternative is to order online, and if ordering online, one can't really evaluate the finer details until it's in-hand. Unsure how to proceed on this item.

Putting here to be able to find later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdq8JAlct6s - use of vacuum pump and manifold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1QpGb1fsgM - use of flush nozzle

[gadget73]

You are supposed to have 134a fittings when using 134a. Keeps things from getting mixed up. Use the ones that require the valve in the original R12 fitting to be removed, not the kind that just have the little push pin inside that works the original valve. Those are really prone to sticking and leaking, the pin bends and it holds the valve open. R12 fittings are all threaded too, so no quick connect option there. Just make sure the conversion fitting on the high side is proper. There is a larger one that some later R12 vehicles used, and it won't jive with 80s Ford stuff. The ones I get come from Napa, they have a bin behind the counter of steel ones that seem to be of decent quality for a couple bucks each. There are probably only a handful of actual manufacturers of these things. The steel ones seem to be OK, aluminum ones are not so awesome.

Vacuum pumps use vacuum oil. Thats not a smartass answer even though it sounds like one. I got a bottle on Amazon for a not too stupid price.

Pretty sure the hydrocarbon refrigerants are propane or isobutane, or possibly a mixture of those and R134a. Both actually do well as a refrigerant, no clue how it compares to original R12 or R134a in terms of performance or pressures. I've always just used R134a because its a fairly known animal.

Ester oil is for conversions. It doesn't react badly if there are any trace amounts of mineral oil in there, and with old hoses there will be. I suppose if you put all new parts in there you might be able to run PAG oil but i have no clue if there is an advantage, or if the compressor will react badly to it.

I didn't use anything special when I flushed mine, just a small funnel and a random piece of hose that served to go between the outlet of the condenser and the funnel. The air gun with a rubber tip pushed it through, another random piece of hose from the inlet to a catch bottle made up the other end of it. Those air charged solvent sprayer things are damned handy though.

[87gtVIC]

Watching this thread closely. Really looking forward to your endeavor, what you find out and what "pops" up etc.

For years my AC system looks like poo. Rusty hoses here and there. I have planned and planned on freshening things up but the potential for defeat if high when these pieces are as old as the car is. I think I finally decided replacement of all the offensive looking bits are the way to go. Id be heartbroken if I spent the time making them look good only to disturb something and end up having to replace something anyways.

[87gtVIC]

Just reading over your notes and comparing the descriptions to your photos, and of my own photos of when my engine was pulled.

From the looks of it there you may have mistaken two descriptions.

1. Liquid Line...Accumulator and condenser appear have no direct contact.

3. Suction Line...Compressor and evaporator appear have no direct contact.


It appears as if the evaporator is in the black plastic housing against the firewall. The top port of evaporator connects directly to the accumulator/receiver dryer. The bottom port of accumulator/receiver dryer connects to the compressor. The other side of compressor connects to the top line of the condenser the bottom line of condenser connects to the bottom line of evaporator (where I believe the orifice tube to be hiding).

If my interjection is in error I will get rid of it. Just making notes up for my own future ac swappings and want to get things correct.

[gadget73]

The suction line runs between the drier and the compressor. The discharge line with the muffler is from compressor to condenser, the liquid line is condenser to evaporator. Liquid is the skinny one in the mix.

Thinking about it, if you use a later drier, I think the suction line from an 86-88 will work, provided the drier is of the same era. No idea if that makes parts selection any easier. The compressor retained those threaded fittings through 88. Evaporator inlet and condenser lost them in 86, but the outlet of the evaporator kept that same threaded fitting. A later drier will have a threaded inlet but a springlock outlet.

At some point I suspect the only fix is to find a place that can do hydraulic and AC lines and have new ones fabricated.

[gadget73]

Some OE part numbers out of the master parts manual that may or may not be of any use

Discharge line - 81-85 E1VY-19972-A / Motorcraft YF-1841
Liquid line - 80-85 E0VY-19835-A / Motorcraft YF-906

Suction line. Two listed, not sure what the deal is there
82-85 E1AZ-19C836-A
82-85 E1VY-19687-A / YF-1836

Googling the liquid line number brings up several for sale on ebay for not-stupid prices

This also comes up with some info, maybe these people can supply the lines too

https://www.polarbearinc.com/pbpc/homepage/Search/HA/HA_Lincoln.html#town

The Motorcraft numbers appear to go to active auctions.

[kishy]

may have mistaken two descriptions.

yessir. I just fixed the post.

I had identified it wrong here, then figured out I had it wrong on the little paper diagram on my desk, but I forgot to edit the fixed info into the post. That may have screwed someone up who was trying to tackle the same.

Thinking about it, if you use a later drier, I think the suction line from an 86-88 will work, provided the drier is of the same era. No idea if that makes parts selection any easier. The compressor retained those threaded fittings through 88. Evaporator inlet and condenser lost them in 86, but the outlet of the evaporator kept that same threaded fitting. A later drier will have a threaded inlet but a springlock outlet.

I believe you are correct that this combination of parts works (86-88 accumulator/drier will bolt to 85- evaporator, and you can then use the quick-connect 86-88 suction line). But, I have a new of the 85- accumulator, and the suction line was not the hard one to find in this case. But the tables may turn by the time I get to the next car I'm fixing (which will likely be the wagon, so identical in all meaningful ways except it already has the mufflerless discharge line) so I may end up mix-n-matching newer and older parts at that point.

Some OE part numbers out of the master parts manual that may or may not be of any use

Discharge line - 81-85 E1VY-19972-A / Motorcraft YF-1841
Liquid line - 80-85 E0VY-19835-A / Motorcraft YF-906

Suction line. Two listed, not sure what the deal is there
82-85 E1AZ-19C836-A
82-85 E1VY-19687-A / YF-1836

Googling the liquid line number brings up several for sale on ebay for not-stupid prices

This also comes up with some info, maybe these people can supply the lines too

https://www.polarbearinc.com/pbpc/homepage/Search/HA/HA_Lincoln.html#town

The Motorcraft numbers appear to go to active auctions.

This is good info!
As it happens I found the 4 Seasons suction line on Amazon.ca for $45Cdn with $5 shipping. Weird bit of luck, because it isn't that cheap elsewhere. $70 Cdn plus quite a bit more for shipping from RockAuto, being the second-best for cost, maybe edged out by the eBay stuff depending on what the total out the door would be.

Do you happen to have the part number hanging around for the Ford/Mercury discharge line lacking the muffler? I'd just as soon get rid of it, as I have to awkwardly pull it out of the way to access the spark plugs, and I feel like manhandling AC lines is a good way to expedite bad things happening.

[87gtVIC]

yessir. I just fixed the post.

I had identified it wrong here, then figured out I had it wrong on the little paper diagram on my desk, but I forgot to edit the fixed info into the post. That may have screwed someone up who was trying to tackle the same.

Cool. I was drawing up my diagrams in my notebook and just wanted to make sure.

[gadget73]

try E1AZ-19972-A / YF-937

Thats what it shows for Ford/Mercury from 81-85.

[kishy]

Uh, well. Bit of a wrench thrown into this project.

The A/C works.

I was measuring the size of the fittings, results inconclusive (low side is 7/16, high side sure looked like 1/4" but this seems not to be right...) and thought, maybe I should verify this is fully empty. (Hypothetically, I may have) quickly poked the low side valve with a screwdriver and (hypothetically) a very energetic shot of (presumably) R12 (might have) blasted out.

I jumped the clutch switch, remembering that this car had the rapid clutch cycling issue, and put the A/C on. Blows cold. Condenser gets hot, evaporator connection to the accumulator gets cold. Reconnected the clutch switch. Still works. Took it on a drive, worked very well. Got a little warm at a stop light as I watched the temperature gauge climb up towards 220, but once I was moving again and it came under 210, all good. Also worth noting the weatherstrip between the engine bay and cowl is toast on this car so hot engine bay air can be pulled into the cabin. I'll prioritize that thermostat replacement I've been meaning to do. Fan clutch is new, but confidence in radiator, thermostat and water pump are shaky.

It's 89 degrees outside. My car was cooler than my house. Though, the house is under-cooled, so it's not the best comparison. But still.

Shrug. Going to continue to scrounge together the stuff to do the job, but I think I'm just going to run with this for a while and see how it does.

[gadget73]

If its working, do not fuck with it. You may need a new fan clutch if the temperature creeps at idle. AC performance tends to suffer at idle anyway but if the fan isn't fanning, it really starts to suck.

[kishy]

If its working, do not fuck with it. You may need a new fan clutch if the temperature creeps at idle. AC performance tends to suffer at idle anyway but if the fan isn't fanning, it really starts to suck.

Yeah, not planning to fuck with it. I thought it was absent of refrigerant by now, given that when I bought it, it worked, then after a period of time it started rapid-cycling. Logical conclusion was there was a leak and it dropped below working pressure, and presumably continued on down to nothing or close to it.

Not rapid-cycling now though, turns on and stays on. Sucks a fair bit of engine power and puts out cold air so I don't know what the rapid cycling was about before.

Fan clutch is new, and temps are lower since I put it on (it used to hover closer to 210 regularly, now 200 before AC - and 200-210 with AC running except when sitting at a light). Radiator was new, but is very skinny, so it may just be inadequate overall. Water pump, this car had iron and I put on an aluminum one, and the one I put on has a very tiny impeller, so basically everything is potentially suspect.

Might go for the big fat rad, then set this one aside for the wagon.

[kishy]

Just nabbed a Spectra CU552 (the chubby rad) for $162 US, with free shipping to the third-party PO box I use in Detroit, via Amazon. Not bad. These things retail well over 300 Canadian at bricks+mortar stores here, and Advance never has them in-stock to be ordered, so while I've meant to replace that for a while I wasn't going to pay what it was going to cost.

Have a new blower motor on hand, the existing one makes a chirping sound and doesn't seem as fast as it should. But the air distribution doors might be all screwed up too. It's on the long to-do list.

try E1AZ-19972-A / YF-937

Thats what it shows for Ford/Mercury from 81-85.

To complete the thought (discharge lines without the muffler)...

Thanks. Can't find any of YF-937 out there, but if I look for E1AZ-19972 without the -A I find a E1AZ-19972-B aka YF-1840. Looks like the right part. Presumably a minor revision.

But, cost-wise, the 4 Seasons version of the part (55674) might be the one to go with.

[gadget73]

Possible. The parts catalog I have was published in 1993.

The rapid cycling could be a funky pressure switch. I've had them go flaky before, sometimes they sort themselves, sometimes not.