A/C Dead, options?

[sly]

That's crap. Has an actual human acknowledged the issue and said they're going to address it or are you hoping for the best with the exchange?

I like Amazon but rarely find them to be competitive with my go-tos for car parts: Canadian CarQuest local store, online order for in-store pickup at Advance in Detroit, or RockAuto either to my Canadian or US address. Between those three, the cheapest option in a brand I'm comfortable with can usually be found.

Amazon was the best price by about 20% this time. I usually have really good luck with them as most crap is next day for me (HUGE f'n distribution center about 10 miles from me). Looks like this one is not a next day item. The system has already sent a replacement order that should be on my stoop tomorrow. Like I said, if this one arrives beat up too, I'll just return for refund and go to the local FLAPS and get it. Found a store one town over that has one in stock, so I'll go bug them if I need to.

[TecNickal]

Box 5.0s can have a Spectra radiator - and it's made in a Canada for the 4 or 5 I've bought. You'd be in awe how a poor flowing radiator can ruin a car. Gota flush the coolant every 2-3 years - otherwise junk. Or a car that runs hot, pushes all that sediment crap into rad where it gets stuck because the fins/tubes get blocked and ... then it overheats cause low flow.

My 90 with a decent cooling system can idle for an hour in traffic down here no problem - AC on. Good fan clutch and good radiator saves it

[TecNickal]

If you don't believe me - get an IR gun and aim it at each tube in the radiator - you'll see some are hotter than others.... especially when clogged.

[kishy]

Box 5.0s can have a Spectra radiator - and it's made in a Canada for the 4 or 5 I've bought. You'd be in awe how a poor flowing radiator can ruin a car. Gota flush the coolant every 2-3 years - otherwise junk. Or a car that runs hot, pushes all that sediment crap into rad where it gets stuck because the fins/tubes get blocked and ... then it overheats cause low flow.

My 90 with a decent cooling system can idle for an hour in traffic down here no problem - AC on. Good fan clutch and good radiator saves it

When I bought the car, I flushed the cooling system and replaced the rad and water pump. I like Spectra stuff but it was a $100 price difference from the Chinese Advance Auto Parts store brand example so I went with what made sense at the time. The cheap rad is the same thickness as the single-row Spectra in my 91, and that car never had overheating concerns even when it still had working A/C, so fan clutch should bring everything back in line here given that it's pretty much freewheeling.

[gadget73]

If I do have to, then I'll work out the cost of replacing everything, but that also seems to include the compressor, since the quick-connect manifold is for a Denso compressor, not an FS6..

FS6 carried through 1988, and it never went quick connect. 89 started with the Denso pump, and it uses the quick connect manifold setup.

[kishy]

Little update here, my parts arrived. Fan clutch went on, temperatures on the gauge are a little lower but not dramatically so. Rad is probably undersized or my (aftermarket mechanical) temp gauge is faulty. Latter is quite possible as I've been noticing inconsistencies with it. Anyway...

While doing that job I realized there is oil staining on my A/C compressor. It looks like there has been leakage from where the manifold mates with the compressor on the one side, as well as possibly through a seam in the compressor body. Is this (practically) resealable or is that more or less a rebuild job?

I also realized that one of the refrigerant hoses is not sold new; the one with the metal bulb inline in it that comes off the compressor. That metal bulb is somewhat rusty. I presume it would be a smart idea to clean it up and paint it while the system is apart (once I get to that point).

Before I make the investment in leak testing, is the compressor a lost cause given the oil staining I mentioned?

[TecNickal]

Honestly Kishy, I would order a line setup for an 89-91 box CV Or GM. The Sanden compressor will bolt on made aftermarket and is one of THE best in the industry - people adding aC to their car use Sanden. Factory quick connect lines except at evap core. The 89 and 90 have the best AC systems of my fleet with R134a.

Unless you want to stay year specific, I would not mess around with the old style. The Nippondenso OE compressor on 89-91 was one of the best ones ever made - pre black death model, quiet, smooth and powerful.

[kishy]

Honestly Kishy, I would order a line setup for an 89-91 box CV Or GM. The Sanden compressor will bolt on made aftermarket and is one of THE best in the industry - people adding aC to their car use Sanden. Factory quick connect lines except at evap core. The 89 and 90 have the best AC systems of my fleet with R134a.

Unless you want to stay year specific, I would not mess around with the old style. The Nippondenso OE compressor on 89-91 was one of the best ones ever made - pre black death model, quiet, smooth and powerful.

I have no qualms about mix-n-matching between different years, that really doesn't bug me. But that is a much more invasive job by what I can tell...notably, I would need to swap evaporators and as far as I can tell that job looks incredibly unfun. Plus the cost goes through the roof.

Edit: just did the cost breakdown between going either way. It would appear to be roughly the same either way, some stuff's more one way, other stuff is more the other way. The difference is actually negligible, EXCEPT:

If I keep the 84 system and it turns out I have reusable components (namely evap, condensor, and that discharge hose), it makes more sense to fix the system I have.

If condensor or discharge hose are found to be faulty I have to go to the new system due to lack of available new parts, which is a large investment (ballpark $600) simply because everything has to be replaced for parts to match up.

It's also peanuts by comparison but I've already bought the accumulator for the old system and would then have a part I don't have a use for if I did that. Aside from the fact I have two other cars it fits, I suppose.

The internal battle for me now is deciding on the better long-term investment. This also requires giving some long and hard thought to the future of this car. I've considered it a disposable beater, but that kind of cash makes it something far beyond that.

[TecNickal]

That.car seems far from beater status - but being the owner you would know best!

Being in Canada - you also can almost squeak by without AC...I don't want to live in sweat and stink (can't with my job), so AC is a must from May to Early October.

Another option at least for rubber hoses is have a hydraulic hose place install new rubber parts and recrimp- save money. Upgrading to newer style system, for a car (you intend to keep long term?) means parts sourcing is easier for future. Seems once things hit 30 years old, not as easy to obtain stuff anymore...

Maybe some old person has scrapped a car with good AC lines and components you could grab?

[kishy]

That.car seems far from beater status - but being the owner you would know best!

Being in Canada - you also can almost squeak by without AC...I don't want to live in sweat and stink (can't with my job), so AC is a must from May to Early October.

Another option at least for rubber hoses is have a hydraulic hose place install new rubber parts and recrimp- save money. Upgrading to newer style system, for a car (you intend to keep long term?) means parts sourcing is easier for future. Seems once things hit 30 years old, not as easy to obtain stuff anymore...

Maybe some old person has scrapped a car with good AC lines and components you could grab?

I guess it's all relative. Factoring in all attributes of all my cars, it's probably the best condition one. Granted, that nosejob did a lot for cosmetics. It's also the one I have the most amount of time and frustration sunk into so I certainly don't want to see it go any time soon. Valvetrain makes some wicked noise though.

As for local climate, Windsor is somewhat of a unique case in that is is extremely far south - the southernmost decent sized city in the country, roughly in line with the top border line of California/Nevada/Utah. Our humidity is a killer as well given proximity to water. Refer to this link and check out the Climate Data chart, noting humidex/relative humidity/temperature in summer months: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor,_Ontario#Climate

(long story short, A/C is extremely valuable here, generally from late May to September)

I've considered junkyard stuff, the boxes of applicable years are very common. It's an attractive cost option. I see lots with 134A conversion fittings, close inspection of those cars can probably reveal that some have new parts as well. I'll keep an eye open specifically for shiny new A/C parts going forward.

[Chris84]

Is there a specific charging table for refilling the a/c with R134a? Any suggestions how much i have to fill in the system?

[gadget73]

Its basically 80-85% of the R12 charge but going by pressure is better.

89-91 hoses do not fit with an 84 compressor. It would also need a different evaporator and condensor. The 80-85 AC system has all threaded connections. 86-88 had quick connect fittings on the condensor and evaporator, but the same threaded connections on the compressor. 89-91 used the Denso compressor with the quick connect fittings, and the same condensor and evaporator from the 86-88 models. I don't know if the Denso pump is any better performance-wise to the FS6 but if it is, that would be a selling point for it.

Depending where the oil leak is on the compressor, it may be no big deal. Under the manifold connections it has one or two O rings. Beyond that I honestly have no clue.

[DerekTheGreat]

My A/C compressor shit the gasket in the middle. When it did, it was a huge leak- you could see green goo running down from it and hear the pressure escaping.

Anyway, if it's a car that I drive on a regular basis, the A/C has got to work. I can't stand the wind buffeting on the freeway or sticking to the seats in heavy traffic.

[kishy]

Look at that, another project I haven't moved on. Lame.

I suddenly decided I want tinted windows, but then realized I'd have to keep the windows closed for a full day, and we are now into the time of year where that is a completely intolerable proposition without working air conditioning. So I'm back here again looking at my options.

There is some weirdness surrounding availability and catalog applications of the hoses. Noting this here for my own or anyone else's future reference...

There are 3 hoses in the system. All have threaded fittings on both ends for 1984 (gadget provided application years earlier in this thread). Newer hoses cannot be substituted because they have either one or both fittings as quick connects depending on the application year.

1. Liquid line: condenser to evaporator. Skinny. 4 Seasons 55643 applies to Ford, Mercury, Lincoln. Might be discontinued, looks hard to find.

2. Discharge line: compressor to condenser. Lincoln original has metal canister inline, noise muffler? There is no aftermarket replacement available for the Lincoln, however 4 Seasons 55674 applies to Ford and Mercury, without the metal canister. I suspect it can be used on the Lincoln just fine, but it's a guess. The Ford/Mercury part is available for purchase.

3. Suction line: accumulator to compressor. Has a metal 'U' section midway through it. 4 Seasons 55671 applies to Ford, Mercury, Lincoln. Available for purchase at various places.


I want to replace my discharge line because the metal canister is rusty and pitted. I'm not sure if I need to worry about the other hoses at all, aside from replacing O-rings. Given the availability issues on the liquid line, I don't seem to have a choice on that one.

Compressor replacement looks necessary (or rebuild/reseal which I absolutely am not qualified to do). I don't trust it. It looks like a seal in the assembly of the body of the compressor leaked...

Nevermind my messy engine bay. Yes, there is another MAP sensor hiding out of frame. Yes, the A/C clutch is disconnected intentionally.







I don't think I'm going to DIY the whole job. Probably mount the new compressor to cut down on shop billable hours, toss the rest of the parts in the car and let a shop do their thing with it. Presumably, also, if the unobtainium liquid line needs to be replaced, a qualified shop can make the hose, as crimping threaded fittings onto a hose is not exactly rocket science.

[Elias]

Don’t mean to high jack thred but Is it worth converting to r134. I have no a/c in my 88 mgm but every thing is there but pretty sure its leaks. Its been a open system for about 8 years do y’all think it’s worth converting or leave r12. Im thinking replace dryer and see what happens