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3G Alternator Upgrade for 1G/Carb/CFI Applications

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    3G Alternator Upgrade for 1G/Carb/CFI Applications

    If one Googles, "3G alternator upgrade", the results can be a little overwhelming in their amount of variance from application to application.

    Accordingly, I've decided to do a little write-up about (in my opinion) the best avenue to take for this upgrade in these applications: 79-85 Ford Panther Platform cars, 302 engine, carb or CFI, with ~60A 1G alternator (external regulator).

    Probably same for 100A 1G also, but two "unknowns" for me to confirm that: 1) if equipped with heated windshield, how to integrate it and 2) physical dimensions of 100A vs 60A alternators. Electrically it should be the same if you disregard the heated windshield. I'm not sure "how different" the harness is in a SEFI car with a 100A 1G so I'm not talking about them here, but I'm sure the process is adaptable.

    Hop on RockAuto or your preferred parts vendor and obtain a 6K507, or K060507 belt. You will likely find it is required.

    Head to your local U-Pull and get the following items:
    • Alternator: my preferred go-to vehicle is a 93-99 Taurus/Sable 3.0 OHV ("3.0" is clearly visible on the valve cover at a glance). 1992 uses the wider mounting ears and won't work with your existing bracket. 2000 was a facelift year so you can avoid them easily, they use a 6G alternator instead.
    • Regulator pigtail from same car as alternator. Get as much wire length as you can before you snip it, you'll appreciate this later.
    • Charge cable, if you don't care to make your own: 00-07 Taurus/Sable with 3.0 OHV. The cable is very easy to extract out of these cars with minimal effort. You will need a utility knife to cut some tape and loom, and also a basic socket set (sorry, forget the sizes needed) to undo some of the plastic junk. The cable runs from alternator, to rad support, across through some loom and plastic tunnelling, to the side of the fuse box where the end forms one of the terminals for the 175A mini-ANL fuse.


    130A 3G and 60A 1G side-by-side:
    Click image for larger version

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    Then, visit your local car audio supplier (or hop on eBay, Amazon or whatever) and buy either a manual-reset circuit breaker, or a fuse holder and fuse, rated somewhere in the 150-200A range. Ford used a 175A fuse with these alternators in the Taurus so it's a smart choice to do the same. If you buy a mini-ANL fuse holder, you can even use the junkyard cars fuse too. Why the fuse? The charge cable is a decently heavy gauge wire and it has full battery voltage on it 24/7. The alternator could internally fail and dead short battery positive to ground. This could cause a fire or explosion. Similarly, if the wire became damaged or detached from the alternator, if it touched ground the spark could be large enough to weld the cable on and create the same scenario.

    Long story short: protect this circuit if you value your car, stuff near your car, and your safety.

    You will also need a nut and bolt with washers to secure the upper ear of the alternator. The original Panther alternator has a threaded upper hole, the 3Gs do not as the bolt goes through completely. Not a big deal but something to be aware of. I recommend a nice big fender washer with the bolt going in through the front, split lock on the back where the nut is.

    With the above on-hand, you can get to work.

    Sometimes (?) Required: Clearance work on the alternator bracket
    Mock up the 3G in the mounting spot of the 1G and determine if the bracket is interfering with the alternator. On my '91 and '84, I had to do this. On my '83 I did not. The bracket is subtly different. You may need to hit the bottom-facing edge of the bracket with a grinder to allow the alternator ear to come up snug against the bracket. Only you can see how much is required when you do this, but just be aware you may have to do it.

    Sometimes Required: Swap pulley
    While doing the above mock-up, observe that your stock belt no longer fits. Even if you swap the pulley, it still won't fit, because the 3G will not "lean over" as much as the 1G did so you can't get the stock belt around the pulley.

    Using an impact gun and a strap wrench you can remove and replace the pulleys of the alternators. The threads are normal (lefty-loosey, righty-tighty). You may find that the 6K507 belt will slip onto the Taurus pulley as-is, with a little fighting, so no pulley swap is required. If you just can't make it happen (perhaps due to tolerance in belt lengths) you should swap the pulley and you'll find it a lot easier to work with, but the alternator will need to be closer to the end of the bracket for the belt to be tight enough.

    Remove the Harness
    In Panthers, there is a detachable "sub-harness" which runs across the front/top of the engine. Looking at the front of the car, it begins at the left from the starter relay where two wires are joined together to one fuse link. The thicker wire is the alternator output wire and the smaller wire is a voltage sense wire used by the voltage regulator.

    Rather than explain this harness in extensive detail I'll just show these pictures.

    '84 Lincoln Town Car (EEC-IV CFI) stock configuration:
    Click image for larger version

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    '84 Lincoln Town Car (EEC-IV CFI) modified (1G removed):
    Click image for larger version

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    '83 Grand Marquis (Carb with Duraspark) stock configuration:
    Click image for larger version

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    '83 Grand Marquis (Carb with Duraspark) modified (1G removed):
    Click image for larger version

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    You need to fish out that entire "sub-harness". Disconnect the battery first. Remove the harness left-to-right or right-to-left, it's about the same either way. There are no particular instructions for this, it just unplugs off of everything in a pretty straightforward way, except the alternator output stud which has a nut (I've seen 7/16 and 10mm) on it. When the harness reaches the driver side fender, it "Tees", some wires going up towards the firewall and some towards the header panel. Carbureted cars have the Duraspark module and the external voltage regulator towards the front, CFI cars will only have the voltage regulator. Remove the voltage regulator from the car with the harness. You won't be reusing it.

    Harness Alterations

    Spread the harness out over a nice wide surface, such as the trunklid of that parts car you've been meaning to scrap. Using a utility knife in key spots and unwrapping with your fingers, carefully remove all the wrapping from the harness. You may wish to add little bands of tape where each "pigtail" branches off to keep it organized but if you do, you'll just be cutting those bands of tape in a moment anyway.

    What you're doing with the external regulator wires:
    • At the regulator pigtail, snip the green wire. This wire runs up into the dash to the alternator light and provides the "excite" function and will be kept; you are going to extend it and connect it to the pigtail for your new alternator.
    • There are two push-on terminals for the back of the alternator (stator and field if I'm not mistaken). These run to the regulator connector, pull them out of the harness. You will not be reusing them; their function is internal within the 3G.
    • Optional, snip the wire to the terminal for the noise capacitor, and relocate this but keep it in the picture, otherwise you may hear some electrical noise on your radio.

    With this done, you can now remove the yellow voltage sensing wire that runs across the whole harness, and take with it the regulator connector, regulator, and the two wires that went from it to the alternator. Put this in your box of "random wire for future projects" because you're done with it here.

    To this point, you have achieved "removing the 1G". Congratulations, your car doesn't have an alternator anymore. Let's fix that.

    The 3G Regulator Pigtail you snipped in the junkyard:
    • Green wire: this must connect to the (usually) green wire you snipped that used to go to the external regulator. Solder an extension on if required, or if you got enough wire on your junkyard pigtail, attach the green wire of the 3G regulator connector to the wire going into the dash. This performs the "excite" function and operates your warning light.
    • Stator wire (usually white):
      Click image for larger version

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      Normally this just loops back to the one-wire connector on the alternator, but in a carb or CFI application, you need to use the stator output to provide the power for the choke cap (which should not be powered with a full 12V). Tee into this wire (snip, solder, etc, do not half-ass these connections), add a fuse, then attach the wire that goes to the choke cap. The fuse protects against a short to ground in case that wire is damaged.
    • Voltage sensing wire (usually yellow). You are going to loop this back to the output stud of the alternator, however, it would be wise to also incorporate the noise capacitor when doing this. You'll see in my attached photos that in one car, I didn't add the capacitor back in, and in the other, I did. In the one that I did, I fused this wire somewhat out of paranoia. It's not really required but since it's battery voltage up to the capacitor it seemed wise.
      Click image for larger version

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    Make sure you neatly wrap up the harness when finished with your alterations.
    With the above done you can reinstall the harness in the car with the alternator.

    Note that in one case I had to use a drill to clean up a bit of a lip on the lower mounting ear of the 3G alternator that prevented the original Panther bolt from going through it. The hole in the alternator is big enough but the mount on the Taurus "squishes" the ear on the alternator, which somewhat caves in the aluminum by the bolt hole. If the bolt won't fit through, try slightly widening it out a bit with a drill.

    Charging Cable
    Pretty straightforward. Take your homemade, or junkyard Taurus charge cable and give it a path across the engine bay. I like to put them in split loom and attach with zip ties at two points, one at the alternator bracket, and the other on the A/C compressor bracket. This gives the cable lots of surrounding air for its whole path over which reduces the risk of melting or chafing through and shorting out.

    Fuse
    You have some flexibility for how to do this and will need to judge accordingly. Snip the Taurus charge wire once you get to the passenger fender liner as you'll be mounting your fuse holder or circuit breaker somewhere over here.

    Click image for larger version

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    Shorten the remainder of the part of the charge cable you just cut off appropriately, use an angle grinder or similar to round off the square terminal on the end, and attach it from the fuse holder to the constant hot stud of the starter relay. Following the routing I've suggested and as shown, I still had over a foot of extra wire I had cut out, so you have plenty of flexibility.

    Recommended: Ground Wire
    You have significantly increased your vehicle's electrical supply. It only makes sense to improve the reliability and capacity of the ground wire as well. You can buy a pre-made thicker (e.g. 4AWG) battery terminal cable and install it with ease.

    Keep in mind there's a dedicated ground wire for the ECM (where applicable) and you'll want to find a way to put that back on the negative battery post (ring terminal on the bolt of your new battery cable should do it).

    Tada, you're done!

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    Last edited by kishy; 05-22-2017, 10:25 PM.

    Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS | 88 TC | 91 GM
    Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 92 Jaaag | 05 Focus
    Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
    | Junkyards

    #2
    If equipped with the 100A 1G... no need for the 3G unless adding e-fans and sound systems and such. If equipped with the heated windshield... SOL. You're stuck with the 1G or you lose the heated windshield.

    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

    Originally posted by gadget73
    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

    Originally posted by dmccaig
    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by sly View Post
      If equipped with the 100A 1G... no need for the 3G unless adding e-fans and sound systems and such. If equipped with the heated windshield... SOL. You're stuck with the 1G or you lose the heated windshield.
      I was under the impression the 100A 1G would still have the same idle RPM output issues, no?

      Ultimately the 60A 1G, or even the 2G, can keep up with normal needs as long as they're spinning a good amount. It's at idle that they suck (nevermind the 2G connector issues).

      Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS | 88 TC | 91 GM
      Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 92 Jaaag | 05 Focus
      Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
      | Junkyards

      Comment


        #4
        2G certainly sucks at idle. Ashley's car was bone stock except for the radio (which wasn't saying much) and during the winter with the headlights on, wipers, defrost, HVAC and turnsignal going it everything was so slow..

        So a 100 Amp 1G has the same output at idle as the 120amp 3G?

        Does anyone have pics of a heated windshield car? Has anyone ever owned one? I have never seen one of those in the wild. To me they're like big foot, often talked about and rumored to exist but no photographic evidence of existence...
        1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
        1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
          2G certainly sucks at idle. Ashley's car was bone stock except for the radio (which wasn't saying much) and during the winter with the headlights on, wipers, defrost, HVAC and turnsignal going it everything was so slow..

          So a 100 Amp 1G has the same output at idle as the 120amp 3G?

          Does anyone have pics of a heated windshield car? Has anyone ever owned one? I have never seen one of those in the wild. To me they're like big foot, often talked about and rumored to exist but no photographic evidence of existence...
          I've seen one. 1990. I have its dash trim including the button to turn it on, it says "W/S DE-ICE" off the top of my head.

          I'm kinda curious to know what exactly is unique about them, in terms of alternator needs. I'll poke around my 91 EVTM and maybe it will become clear. Instaclear.
          Last edited by kishy; 05-23-2017, 09:07 AM.

          Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS | 88 TC | 91 GM
          Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 92 Jaaag | 05 Focus
          Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
          | Junkyards

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by kishy View Post
            Originally posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
            2G certainly sucks at idle. Ashley's car was bone stock except for the radio (which wasn't saying much) and during the winter with the headlights on, wipers, defrost, HVAC and turnsignal going it everything was so slow..

            So a 100 Amp 1G has the same output at idle as the 120amp 3G?

            Does anyone have pics of a heated windshield car? Has anyone ever owned one? I have never seen one of those in the wild. To me they're like big foot, often talked about and rumored to exist but no photographic evidence of existence...
            I've seen one. 1990. I have its dash trim including the button to turn it on, it says "W/S DE-ICE" off the top of my head.

            I'm kinda curious to know what exactly is unique about them, in terms of alternator needs. I'll poke around my 91 EVTM and maybe it will become clear. Instaclear.
            I encountered an InstaClear Sable before. It was a 1987 model, IIRC. Was immediately recognizable by the gold tinted windshield, which someone smashed. It was at my local junkyard, and based on the dealer badges, was originally from Pennsylvania. FWIW, the InstaClear windshields on those had a yellow stripe that went around the perimeter of the glass.

            I think when InstaClear was activated, it would up the idle speed some for better output from the alternator given the load requirement to quickly heat the windshield. I'll look around for the owner's manual, since I think it mentioned some other details about the InstaClear system.

            That's the only InstaClear model I've ever encountered, and a real unicorn down here since I doubt it was ever ordered in an area that never sees any real winter weather.


            My Cars:
            -1964 Comet 202 (116K Miles) - Long Term Project
            -1979 Ford LTD Landau (38K Miles) - New Cruiser

            -1986 Dodge D-150 Royale SE (112K Miles) - Slowly Getting Put Back Together
            -1987 Grand Marquis Colony Park LS (343K Miles) - April 2017 + September 2019 POTM Winner
            -1997 Grand Marquis LS (244K Miles) - March 2015 + January 2019 POTM Winner - Sold (05/2011 - 07/2024)

            Comment


              #7
              The service manuals I have talk about their operation... For boxes I believe it's operation is tied into the rear defrost so it didn't get a special button. It had something to detect battery voltage and if that got too low then it would turn off the system. About all I remember.
              1985 LTD Crown Victoria - SOLD
              1988 Town Car Signature - Current Party Barge

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
                The service manuals I have talk about their operation... For boxes I believe it's operation is tied into the rear defrost so it didn't get a special button. It had something to detect battery voltage and if that got too low then it would turn off the system. About all I remember.
                It has a dedicated button in 90-91. How it works in the older ones, I'm not sure, but I think you're right as I remember reading that somewhere.

                Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS | 88 TC | 91 GM
                Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 92 Jaaag | 05 Focus
                Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                | Junkyards

                Comment


                  #9
                  Some notes I'll add after re-reading this:

                  I mentioned that CFI will only have the voltage regulator, not a Duraspark module on the driver side fender liner. This is only true of EEC-IV CFI since it uses TFI ignition. EEC-III CFI will have a Duraspark module.

                  I mentioned upgrading the ground wire. This generally involves replacing the negative battery cable from the battery to the engine. However, this does not truly upgrade the grounding for the entire vehicle as it depends on grounds having good continuity back to the engine which isn't always the case. It would be wise to also ground that to the body in the process.

                  Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS | 88 TC | 91 GM
                  Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 92 Jaaag | 05 Focus
                  Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                  | Junkyards

                  Comment


                    #10
                    the 100A 1G has the idle speed drop, but it's not as bad as the 2G. Even the 60A 1G isn't as bad as the 2G. The thing about the instaclear is that it bypasses the regulator and puts raw output to the windshield. I don't think it's possible to bypass the 3G voltage regulator to be able to drive the instaclear setup. The 82 Mark VI I had came with the 60A 1G. It didn't dim near as bad as the 65A 2G in the 88, but it also had a tiny pulley. I went ahead and did the 3G swap in both for reliability. The other issue with the 100A 1G is that it's the larger case and needs the larger adjustment bracket IIRC.

                    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                    rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                    Originally posted by gadget73
                    ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                    Originally posted by dmccaig
                    Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The 100 amp alternator has a larger frame size. 3.8 Taurus alternator fits in that hole. 60 amp 1g and 65 amp 2g are the small frame.

                      My Mark VII has a factory 100 amp, and honestly its sufficient. Not amazing by any means, but if it can keep up with all the bullshit on a fully computer controlled Lincoln, it'll do anything a box will ask of it. When it dies though, it will most probably be replaced with a 3g for cost and availability reasons. The 100 amp alternator is more expensive last I checked.

                      You can actually bypass the 3g reg but I'm not 100% how they did it on the 1G. THere is a screw on the back of the regulator you can ground to full field the alternator. Its used to check if no charge is caused by the regulator or not. It may even be printed on the regulator "Test" or similar. If the Instaclear relay doesn't shunt the field to ground, you'd need to add in another relay to make that polarity change happen. Or considering how few people still have an intact Instaclear, it may not really matter.
                      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                      Originally posted by phayzer5
                      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Odd thing. I noticed in the '84 TC EVTM that the stator wire goes from the alternator to a splice in the harness, then from that splice it goes 3 places: regulator, choke heater, and the self-test connector.

                        I didn't find any connection to the self-test connector when doing this on my '84, but it does have an '85 Crown Vic engine harness in it...

                        Panthers: 83 GM 2dr | 84 TC | 85 CS | 88 TC | 91 GM
                        Not Panthers: 85 Ranger | Ranger trailer | 91 Acclaim | 92 Jaaag | 05 Focus
                        Gone: 97 CV | 83 TC | 04 Focus | 86 GM
                        | Junkyards

                        Comment


                          #13
                          self test connector? Can't imagine why the stator wire would run to that, unless maybe Ford planned some extra function on the tester to diag the charging system as well.
                          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                          Originally posted by phayzer5
                          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                          Comment

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