Serious Ignition/Starter gremlin !!

[alchemist]

This is the second time that this has happened. First time happened about three months ago, but I wasn't there with my son to fully understand what happened. This time I was. Here's what happened:

My son turns the key over to start the car, and the starter just keeps on running! Even though he doesn't hold the key in the 'START' position. He then turns the key to 'OFF' and pull the key out of the ignition and still the starter is turning over trying to start the car. The starter continues to turn for about a minute or so. I then took the key, put it back in the ignition and turned the key to 'START' then to 'ON' and the starter shut off and the engine runs normal. My son tells me that this is how he 'fixed' it last time it happened.

Has anyone ever heard of this (I have NEVER experienced this on any car)? Is this likely an ignition/lock cylinder switch issue? I'm also wondering what to tell my son to do the next time it happens. thinking of telling him to pop the hood and pull of the small switch wire that connects to the starter solenoid on the passenger side inner fender well?

Thanks for any help...

[sly]

my guess is either starter solenoid or the ignition switch in the column. If you're talking about the 90 GM, you may have the same issue I had with the 93's ignition rod that pushes the actual switch. I had to take the steering column half apart and fish the rod out enough to put the pin back in it that the rod from the key fits on. Then I added some epoxy and let it dry (plastic welder epoxy by devcon) since it will bond to plastics and metals. Then I put it all back together. If the rod is getting stuck down, it could hold the ignition switch in the on position. This can easily be verified by noting the status of the radio and clock. If they remain on when you pull the key, that rod is to blame. If not, it's either the ignition switch itself having some weird issue (doubtful) or the starter solenoid.

[alchemist]

my guess is either starter solenoid or the ignition switch in the column. If you're talking about the 90 GM, you may have the same issue I had with the 93's ignition rod that pushes the actual switch. I had to take the steering column half apart and fish the rod out enough to put the pin back in it that the rod from the key fits on. Then I added some epoxy and let it dry (plastic welder epoxy by devcon) since it will bond to plastics and metals. Then I put it all back together. If the rod is getting stuck down, it could hold the ignition switch in the on position. This can easily be verified by noting the status of the radio and clock. If they remain on when you pull the key, that rod is to blame. If not, it's either the ignition switch itself having some weird issue (doubtful) or the starter solenoid.

thanks Slymer. Some additional things:
1. The solenoid was replaced right after I got the car. It's a BWD Select so supposed to be decent.
2. Interestingly, the ignition lock (thing the key goes in) doesn't have a 'stop' position for the 'KEY OFF' position any more So you sorta have to guess where to turn the switch over to, to be able to pull the key out. My son has driven the car enough to know this well now.

does this narrow anything down? I've also never heard of a key ignition lock cylinder having issue with not having a 'stop' position...

[sly]

sounds like the link rod is screwed. you'll need to verify that the clock does indeed turn off when you get to the off position. If this is the case, it's the ignition switch that is busted (it's the part with the stops in it. The lock cylinder itself doesn't actually have any stops).

[sly]

found the post I made in the "What are you working on?" thread...

with the help of the pics here and the thread over on CVN here, my 93 vic now starts with the key AND turns off with the key. The little aluminum rod that links the ignition actuator rods had fallen out. I managed to put it back without removing the steering wheel. I took the T30 bolts out of the tilt hinge to give me some room and used a flat head screwdriver to fish the pin out of the rod channel. I aligned the rods and carefully placed the pin near where it needed to be with some duck bill needle nose pliers. I then used the same flat head screwdriver to massage the pin into position and very carefully levered the screwdriver against the steering shaft to push the pin into place. Took me about 3 hours to figure out all the angles and replace the ignition switch, including a run to Autozone (damn brittle old plastic... tightened down the screw in the wire harness and the nut broke off the switch). Now my wife can use the key in her DD to actually start and stop it now instead of thumbing the ignition switch that was hanging down from the dash.

Those links in there gave me enough info to do it. I did it without removing the wheel from the column though. I just disconnected the bolts on the tilt hinge. Then pulled and wiggled stuff to my will. There was JUST enough room to finagle the stuff. I had to use a paperclip tool (yeah... bent into a short L) to fish out the pin that links the rods together, but I got it all back together.

I really think you have a combination of both a slipping/broken linkage and a buggered ignition switch. I do hope it's just the latter though.

[marquisman]

+1 on ignition switch issue.

[gadget73]

Try pulling the small wire off the solenoid next time it does that. If it stops, its switch related. If it does not, the solenoid is done for. Trick with the solenoids, when they start to burn out often, its usually because the starter is dying and pulling too much current.

[alchemist]

It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it really freaks my son out. BTW, the Grand Marquis is his car. That's why I never have time to work on it and diagnose problems correctly. Still, it's probably my favorite riding car that i have. Beats the pants off of my Roadmaster and Impala SS. I just sold a 96 Fleetwood and it rode better than that as well (although not nearly as fleet - that damn Fleetwood had an LT1 in it). I told my son if he doesn't take care of the 1990 Grand Marquis, I would 'repossess' it!