Touchy Brakes - not finding any topics on this.

[jaywish]

Well there are many things to consider with brake feel.

Assuming the fronts look ok. i.e. no odd uneven wearing of existing pads and no ridges in the rotors. No fluid leaks. master and booster working properly, fluid not decayed to extremes.

Then in my suggested order:

1) Get the rears working properly. (I do recommend converting to disk when time is available at least replace outer wheel bearings and seals while you are swapping to disks.)

2)
a. Select a different pad material. There are many many formulations out there.
I share the "Centric Extended Wear" as a solution to grabby brakes. They are not as aggressive when cold but don't fade as much when hot. All brake pads are a tradeoff in performance characteristics, like tires are.
b. I do recommend an upgrade to the 98-02 brakes, this becomes economical when overhauling the front end steering and suspension. Improvements are more heat dissipation, larger brake contact area, an easier method of caster and camber adjustment, the requirement to use bigger wheels which arguably increases the selection of wheels and tires.)

c. The 92-97 front brakes use a separate hub and rotor design but other then the ability to more easily and cheaply replace rotors and increase the selection of rims you can mount (you can continue to use the 15" and also use more 16" as the spindle on the 92-97 is shorter) they offer no additional braking capacity. The calipers are the same as the box calipers and iirc even use the same pads.
d. Booster and master will also likely provide a different feel as to pedal pressure required.

Final comments;
Even if you do upgrade to bigger brakes, rear disks, new master etc. you still need to tune the selection of pads. They are the most direct and easily changed item to affect brake feel and actual performance. Like anything, suit to taste.

MAKE SURE YOU REPLACE RUSTY BRAKE LINES IF YOU WANT TO EVEN HAVE BRAKES.

[adam.w.ackerman]

so my issue is directly effected by temperature, but not in the way I expected. It was like 8 degrees this morning, maybe lower; pedal travel and response were proportionate to what I would expect the car to normally have. What I expected this morning was for the grabbing to be even worse, not better.... A visual inspection should hopefully answer some questions.

[sly]

The brakes on my box are super touchy when cold. After a few stops they get back to normal though. I am definitely changing the pads to the same stuff I put on the 93 when I get around to it (probably spring time since the pads are getting near the wear marker). Those pads are not much affected by temperature. It's really nice.

[DerekTheGreat]

Guess I should add Ashley has ceramic pads and my car probably has chitty semi-metallic ones. Had shop resurface rotors & throw new pads at it when I got it some two years ago now.

So sly, the Non-ABS booster is a direct bolt on, meaning that it won't move the MC up those 3-4 inches??

[sly]

It's a direct bolt on meaning it will move the MC forward because the aero booster is that much thicker with the smaller diameter.

[turbo2256b]

Min on older models I REPLACE STD CALIPERS with police and get high end police pads. Recently purchased Power stop top of the line ones. No driving time at this point been internal frame coating in the drivers side of the frame and body etc.

One thig I DO WITH MOST OF MY VEHICLES IS AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR bleed the piss out of them to get the dirt and moisture out of the system. Before and after auto cross events and other hard braking events will bleed them also as the fluid might be a bit fried.

[RobertB]

One thig I DO WITH MOST OF MY VEHICLES IS AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR bleed the piss out of them to get the dirt and moisture out of the system.

Heh, when I got my 1990 Crown Vic in February, 1991 (24, 725 miles), I brought it in to have its brake system flushed. Out came the original factory fluid which was already turning milky! In went DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. I've had that same brake fluid in the car for all these years. There has been no deterioration in the original brake calipers, master cylinder, rear wheel cylinders, or brake lines. Other than putting in a little bit of DOT 5 fluid to top off the system after a brake job, the fluid is still nice and clean to this day. Now the car is at 490,000 miles, and the brakes are working fine.

[knucklehead0202]

Heh, when I got my 1990 Crown Vic in February, 1991 (24, 725 miles), I brought it in to have its brake system flushed. Out came the original factory fluid which was already turning milky! In went DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. I've had that same brake fluid in the car for all these years. There has been no deterioration in the original brake calipers, master cylinder, rear wheel cylinders, or brake lines. Other than putting in a little bit of DOT 5 fluid to top off the system after a brake job, the fluid is still nice and clean to this day. Now the car is at 490,000 miles, and the brakes are working fine.

Holy shit i'm not the only one in California! Also wondering if the fluid in my car isn't probably original from 1990, lol. Maybe i'll flush that soon and see how it does.

[DerekTheGreat]

We do that to all the vehicles we acquire; flush all fluids. I didn't think you could put DOT 5 in a system that was designed for 3?

[adam.w.ackerman]

Dot 5 is the conversion fluid.


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[DerekTheGreat]

So all a dude or dudette has to do is suck out much of the DOT 3 and then just keep flushing with 5 until it's good?

[jaywish]

IIRC you can flush the old fluid with copious quantities of alcohol. Then blow out the alcohol and do a smaller flush with the dot 5 to get any remaining alcohol and air out of the system.

Whenever I change fluid type I always mark the master cylinder reservoir.

[BigMerc96]

I've always just used DOT3. It performs fine. But I always flush it every few years. Here in the rust belt, its virtually impossible for a 20 year old car to have the original fluid, the brake lines will have been replaced at least once after they popped. Or in the case of my '97, some were replaced twice because the lines installed by the previous owner were so sloppy that it made me cringe more than the rusty original lines on other parts of the car. They're all new now. My '98 probably has the original fluid, the factory coated lines are all in place (along with the original rotors still being riveted to the hubs), and the stuff in there is NASTY. That's job one this spring, replace the pads/rotors/front calipers, all 4 hoses, and flush the system with clean fluid.

[gadget73]

Silicone fluid is no bueno. It compresses. Makes for squishy brakes. The system was designed for DOT3, and it works fine with 3 or 4. 5 is also not compatible with the older fluids, so its not a great idea to use it on systems that are not all virginal, having never had a drop of the older fluid in them.

[RobertB]

Let me see how many cars I've converted to DOT 5 silicone brake fluid... Back in 1985 I had a 1973 Pontiac Bonneville 400. The car lasted a few years before I had to sell it because of engine problems. After the Pontiac, I had 1979 Ford Fairmont which stayed in the family until the early 2000's. Yup, converted that to DOT5 as soon as I got it. The car caught on fire, due to overheating catalytic converter. In 1991 I acquired my 1990 Ford Crown Vic. In the early 2000's, I had a Honda Accord station wagon as a back-up car, and yes, I put DOT5 into that. Several years later I had to sell it, because I kept repairing the engine, but the engine wouldn't stay repaired.

My current back-up car is a 1988 Mercury Colony Park, but I haven't put in the DOT5 fluid in it yet. Eventually. The 1972 Ford Ranchero is my hobby car, and I haven't put the DOT5 fluid in it yet. Eventually...

By the way, as soon as my school librarian friend bought her Ford Taurus brand new in 1993, I advised her to put in DOT5. She still has the car after all these years with the same fluid, still clean, still with no degradation in the braking system.

By the way, today I brought the 90 Crown Vic to Sears to have a flat tire replaced (left rear). The keen-eyed mechanic looked through the front turbine wheels and spotted the drilled and slotted front brake rotors I had installed. Was he surprised!