Separating Body and Frame

[molson63]

My 1989 Grand Marquis just passed inspection in New York for that last time, according to my mechanic, because the frame is showing signs of rust-through in one spot towards the back where it kicks out by the rear suspension. The rest of the car is in pretty good shape (body has some surface rust but no rot; last repairs in that regard have held for two years but it has started to show a little again). It has a little over 178,000 miles on the drivetrain (78,000 on the rebuilt transmission). It has always been well-maintained mechanically and there are no real problems there. So I'm wondering how crazy it would be to either try to fix the frame with the body attached or, ideally, to lift the body off the frame and repair the problems. Most of the frame is in good to excellent shape, at least from what can be seen. It appears that debris and water collected in this one area and created havoc. I have access to a couple of guys who are excellent welders/fabricators who will help me out for little or no money. I would also take the opportunity to put on custom-bent stainless steel brake lines, new body bushings, and what not. What I' m not sure of is how to lift the body off the frame so as to be able to roll it out from underneath without some sort of crane or end loader or anything like that (that body must be pretty heavy). I have access to both a pit and a lift, but no crane. I also don't want to do anything that is completely nuts, either, since the car is a 1989 with far more sentimental than monetary value, but I think I'm mostly looking at the "cost" of my own time here. Is there a thread that walks through this on the forum? I couldn't find one, at least not easily, so I'd be happy to be pointed to that. Any advice anyone here who has done this might give would also be appreciated, and if the idea is completely off the wall or not worth it, I'd be happy to know that before I started too.

[miamibob]

I would photo and post at least the areas in question so some of the folks here can better respond.

[79lincolnlover]

If this plan doesn't work out, perhaps you can buy another box from the Southern US.

[pantera77]

It's a pretty big job, but it's pretty straight forward. Pull the front clip, engine trans, disconnect anything between the body and frame, remove all the body mounts and drop the frame down. All you really need is a couple jacks, 4x4's, and a couple stands. Word of warning, the body mounts will give you trouble. Even on rust free cars, the captive nuts like to escape, so don't be surprised if your cutting access holes here and there.

Honestly, boxes are pretty much worthless. I know you said yours has sentimental value, but these things are still very common and cheap down south. You can find a nice rust free one, drive it up, oil undercoat it every year and enjoy it for quite some time. Been there done that, I was sick of dealing with rot boxes so I head down south when I want a new one. I broke my own personal rule and bought a 92 from around here and sure enough was welding up the frame the next day.

If your dead set on fixing yours, and droping the frame, I'd seriously think about doing a 98-02 frame swap, or even a 03+ if your up to it. It's more work, but why not upgrade while your at it.

[jaywish]

Still most often it is a weld job with the body still attached. Pics as Bob suggested might help.

[dmccaig]

Dear Panthers,
My 89 CP frame broke in a fender bender. My friend ratchet detached lines, jacked the body onto cinderblocks and slid the frame out. Replaced frame with a 84 (I think) Lincoln hearse frame. It's gone 240K since. I don't know if later frames are the same.

Donald McCaig

[molson63]

Thanks everyone. It looks like I'll be looking for a southern Panther body to replace my car, ideally a wagon. I talked to my mechanic a bit more yesterday and the issue isn't even the frame, really. The damage is limited to one easily-accessible spot and it would be no problem at all to clean it up and weld on material to make it even stronger than it was without removing the body at all. The issue, as it turns out, is liability. He won't let it pass inspection next year because the rules in New York are becoming even more stringent when it comes to frame damage and/or modification. Even if I fix it he can't sign off because if there were an accident he could be sued and lose his business because he said my car was safe. I could get another shop to okay it but then they would be exposed to the risk of being sued, and so would I for that matter since I am aware of the issue. Given that I'm just going to enjoy it for the summer and start looking around for its replacement. As much as I'm attached to the car that makes more sense than outright replacing the frame. I appreciate everyone's input!

[turbo2256b]

That must have put a lot of body shops out of business oh they could be sued no more frame shops. I have had whole sections of frames repaired or replaced.

[slack]

That must have put a lot of body shops out of business oh they could be sued no more frame shops. I have had whole sections of frames repaired or replaced.

+1

I haven't heard this before. If that's the case, any car with decent damage in an accident would not be fixed. There's collision shops here every other mile on Long Island. I'm going to investigate this further because something that mechanic is saying sounds fishy.

Edit
Here's a guy not 20 minutes from me that does frame repair and straightening: http://autobody-repair-long-island.n...Long-Island-NY
There were a bunch more with a quick google search.

I also ran across the law, I'm guessing the guy just doesn't want anything to do with even the possibility of getting anything pinned on him. I'm sure if you brought it somewhere else, they would have no issue fixing the frame and passing inspection.

The PDF won't let me copy but here is the form CR-82 from the NYS DMV: http://dmv.ny.gov/forms/cr82.pdf

Basically, it says that if they perform repairs, they must guarantee them to be of OEM quality. They are also responsible for any subcontracted work done. You have 90 days or 3000 miles on a repair, and if it fails, it must be fixed. I didn't see any warranty past that though.

My guess is that your mechanic or one of his friends must have gotten burned in the past by a shotty repair.

[pantera77]

He won't let it pass inspection next year because the rules in New York are becoming even more stringent when it comes to frame damage and/or modification.

First time I've ever heard of this, and thats coming from someone with a NYSI license. I've failed my fair share of panthers because of rotted out frames, but I've also passed many who's had them welded back up (as long as it's a quality repair). You know how many rotted out plow trucks have had their frames patched and patched again? Sounds like someone who just doesn't want to deal with it.

[jaywish]

I will ask a few state inspectors I know. If something is fixed properly, as was said, stronger than stock there really should not be a problem.

[IPreferDIY]

I remembered seeing someone doing a frame repair but couldn't find the thread conveniently. It ended up being johnunit. Here's the links to a couple of posts in his Reader's Ride thread in case that might be useful:

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?29095-85-351-4door-Vic-**DUW**&p=723578&viewfull=1#post723578

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?29095-85-351-4door-Vic-**DUW**&p=724135&viewfull=1#post724135