Big Brake Stuff

[kishy]

The early hubs will mount on the spindles but give you wheel fitment problems. You would need wheel spacers.

You need the later part number hubs. Probably a mid year change in 97.

Happen to know how far off the offset is/how much of a spacer would be needed? The wheels I have are from a late Aero Town Car (I believe base model) which have excellent clearance inside, I'm wondering if perhaps they'll fit over brakes etc but just sit a bit more "tucked".

[pantera77]

Comparing specs is seemingly difficult because Moog's catalog specs are inconsistent between the part number for a "92-97" (513104) and a "97-02" (513202) (if you look them up you'll see what I mean)

I'm thinking that might just be a typo and supposed to say 98-02. IIRC some guy on CVN bought 98-02 bearings for his 97 Towncar because they were much cheaper, but he had to shim the caliper out a touch.

[kishy]

Didn't even think of that, guess I forgot that the rotors have to go on there too...

Looks like I can get the correct Moog items (for a "2001", the 513202 part number) for $50 US each, not the end of the world I guess.

[jaywish]

better than shims

You can sell the 92-97 ones if they are new.

[kishy]

better than shims

You can sell the 92-97 ones if they are new.

Yup...might as well do it right if I'm going to do it I suppose.

They're new. Got them cheap at least. Some sort of Federal Mogul private label arrangement, one came in a Duralast box and one came in...maybe a Fenco box? Threw me a bit but they were very inexpensive so the inconvenience is more irritating than the cost. Perhaps when I do the second car I'll do it with 92-97 parts and get to use them then.

[gadget73]

The spindle is the same 1995-2002

92-94 stuff is different and not any better than the box stuff, other than you get a sealed hub vs integral hub rotors. Same size brakes.

the 95-97 hub bearing is not the same as the 98-02 one. Its damn close, but the 95-97 part will put a 98-02 rotor too close to the caliper bracket and the bolts that retain the caliper bridge will jam the rotor. I tried it once. You might be able to shim things, but just buying the part that fits what you're looking to do makes more sense.

The only bolt that you should need for the upper ball joint is the small pinch bolt that retains it in place. The two studs that hold the ball joint to the arm are part of the control arm. There is also the pair of adjuster eccentric cams and the self-locking nut as part of that rig.

The upper ball joint itself is interesting. There are three different ones. From 92-94 or so the ball joints are handed, so you got a left and a right upper ball joint. The 95+ stuff is not handed, so you used the same ball joint on both sides. These interchange with no trouble, but I would probably go with the same type on both sides just in case something gets flaky with the alignment spec having one handed and one non-handed part installed.

The magic upper arm is 92-94. You can do it the hard way and fit your stock cross-shafts into later arms but if you can find ones that are already assembled, it sure makes it easier.

[kishy]

I corrected my errors today. Advance Auto Parts sells complete caliper/bracket assemblies so I went and picked up dirt cheap ones off a 2002 in a yard and then used them as cores ($14 from the yard offsetting a $40 core).

One thing I'm noticing, my flex lines...they're 97 parts. Looks like they functionally work but I'm thinking they're not long enough. What I noticed on the 2002 in the yard was that the driver side flex line has an integral splitter and that's where the passenger front line comes out of (car did not have ABS). I'm assuming/hoping that the line for an ABS-equipped car would not have that splitter?

And yes, I now have the correct hubs in hand and have compared...everything is pushed out further from the spindle with the 98-02 part.
I'm hoping it's not a visually meaningful difference in track width since wherever possible I'd prefer to try to bring the front more in line with the rear ('91)...I'm probably the only guy here who prefers the look of the narrow track.

[gadget73]

yeah, the non-abs hose has the internal tee. Use ABS hoses if you wish to retain stock box hardlines. The passenger side is the same for both, only the driver's side hose is different.

Difference in track width should be very slight, probably not enough to notice. I'd venture to guess it is less than 1/2".

[kishy]

I'm having a considerable degree of difficulty figuring out how to get the old bushings out of the "new" junkyard arms. I have the nuts and washers off and just studying this thing...the shaft cannot come out until one of the bushings comes out first.

Anyone have suggestions for how exactly this is done? Google is not currently able to search GMN seemingly due to whatever malware/vulnerability is still on this server since my AV still goes crazy whenever I go to a search result...

I have a 12 ton shop press available to me. As best I can tell it's the right tool for the job with adaptations, but I don't know what those are.

Edit: I am NOT using poly bushings and therefore pressing IN the new bushings including their metal shells is required.

[sly]

shop press or air hammer or BFH and a pickle fork. since you don't need the shells, beat them out.

[pantera77]

I just use an air hammer, pops the shell and bushing out nice and quick.

[gadget73]

There is actually a special press tool for this. It looks sort of like a C clamp with a slot through the bottom side.



you can guess now why a lot of us do poly bushings.


If you've got some flat stock, take a piece and slice out a notch big enough to slide over the shaft up against the bushing. You'll have to get the arm hanging down in the frame of the press with it set up that way. On the top side, you'll need a piece of pipe or something large enough to press on the arm around the bushing. Probably you'll also need to cut a piece of angle iron to wedge into the control arm itself to keep it from collapsing under the force of the press.

[kishy]

That tool...I want it.
And yes, I'm seeing now why poly is an easier solution.

I burned the rubber out of the bushings with a small propane torch, so now I just have the shafts rattling around loose in the shells. I've tried a couple angles with strategically placed normal C-clamps, no go. Tried to figure out a way to use a ball joint separator (the small lever type), seems it might be able to work with a little creativity...

Tried to find a giant pickle fork, none of appropriate dimensions are available to me.

No vise, so I can't mount it and whack it with a BFH.

Out of concern for bending the arms I'm trying to make the shop press the last option to consider.

Thought occurred to me, perhaps try to saw through the bushing shells from the inside with a hacksaw or reciprocating saw? Then once it's split it should pop out easily...I do think I'd need a vise for this though.

[gadget73]

you might be able to burn the rubber out and then get the shells out. I'm thinking that a carefully applied hacksaw in an empty shell would slice through it and let you collapse the thing for extraction. You're on your own for shoving it back together though.

[IPreferDIY]

... Thought occurred to me, perhaps try to saw through the bushing shells from the inside with a hacksaw or reciprocating saw? Then once it's split it should pop out easily...I do think I'd need a vise for this though.

Personally, I'd avoid using a power tool so you don't risk messing up the arm. A hacksaw should work fine. You can take the blade out of the frame, put it through the hole, and reattach the frame (maybe with the blade upside down if that's more convenient). Just be careful not to cut into the arm. Once you see a nice groove in the shell, it should be weak enough to bend it without cutting right through.