Frame Lenghts?

[Kodachrome Wolf]

...So Grand Marq's had their own separate frames all the way till 92'. Interesting.

Looked at some side shots on the '88-'91 MGMs and LTDCVs, the header panel was still longer on Grand Marquis than LTD Crown Victoria. Because of that, the bumper is also still out ever so further.

Sure is an interesting find; nice work Pantera.

[gadget73]

Also, wagon rear doors are they same as sedans, but the window frames are shorter on a wagon.

so they are different, but not how I thought they were. I knew there was something different there.

[pantera77]

I wonder how many different frames total there were for boxes.

79-91 GM Sedan + Tudor
79-91 GM/CP wagon
79-91 CV Sedan + Tudor
79-91 CV/CS wagon
79-91 CVPI

And that makes me wonder, since there was a police option GM, if it got it's own PI spec frame like CV's did.

And then there's the Lincoln's, but I have no clue on those.

[gadget73]

I've heard it claimed that tow package cars got special thicker frames too. No clue if this is true or not. I've never had a sample size or the inclination to take micrometer readings on the frame in various places to see if anything checked out. I have a tow package car and can take measurements if anyone wants them.

Lincolns should have 2 frames, the Mark VI coupe and the 4 doors. I don't rightly know what the 2 door Continental or Town Coupe had. It was the longer wheelbase of the 4 door model, but its possible something was different in the middle of the door area with regards to body mounts. I've only ever seen one, and have never been under it. They were only made for 2 years and in small number. It is possible there are minor variations when the bumpers changed in '85 but that shouldn't be anything major.

[Mr Bean]

Comparing the 2 Mark VI images the wheels bases for 2 doors and 4 doors look the same.

[P72Ford]

I've heard it claimed that tow package cars got special thicker frames too. No clue if this is true or not. I've never had a sample size or the inclination to take micrometer readings on the frame in various places to see if anything checked out. I have a tow package car and can take measurements if anyone wants them.

I've noted that (at least) '88-'91 police cars have HD stamped on the frame. It is visible through the wheel opening on the passenger's side rear, at the top of the frame arch. Maybe elsewhere as well.

[1990LTD]

I wonder how many different frames total there were for boxes.

79-91 GM Sedan + Tudor
79-91 GM/CP wagon
79-91 CV Sedan + Tudor
79-91 CV/CS wagon
79-91 CVPI

And that makes me wonder, since there was a police option GM, if it got it's own PI spec frame like CV's did.

And then there's the Lincoln's, but I have no clue on those.

This is most interesting.

[88grandmarq]

I've noted that (at least) '88-'91 police cars have HD stamped on the frame. It is visible through the wheel opening on the passenger's side rear, at the top of the frame arch. Maybe elsewhere as well.

Correct... tow package and fleet/taxi/police vehicles got a heavier frame. "HD" is stamped on the frame in the rear wheel arches. normal production vehicles got a standard frame, "STD" is stamped on the frame in the rear wheel arches.

HD frame is thicker material and has more reinforcement points as well has more/heavier welds

[1990LTD]

I've wondered whether or not mine has the tow package or is in fact a fleet car, it's got some conflicting options.

Is it just on the frame in one wheel arch or in both?

[BigMerc96]

Town Cars most likely used the same frame configurations as a GMQ coupe/sedan, except with the 3" added in between the wheel arch and b-pillar/center body mount. I know dimensionally my Town Car is the same from the core support to the b-pillar to my GMQ, but there is definitely more rear leg room, trunk is the same.

Actually just went out with my measuring stick. Sure as shit, the Town Car has 4" of frame in front of the body mount. The rear is the same as a CV/GMQ sedan/tudor as well, couldn't get a good measurement as the ground is cold and wet and i didn't want to crawl under there, but my '93 CV tailpipes that I had on my '96 GMQ line up perfectly to the Town Car, coming about an inch short at the bumper which is entirely a difference in bumper covers. I'm willing to bet that the measurement between the torque box and center body mount is the same, the front seats seem to be in exactly the same spot in relation to the dash/firewall.

Granted these measurements are on a '97 Town Car, but Town Cars changed VERY little between Box and "Aero". Remember, '90s were new body on old frame and even had real metal bumpers.

[pantera77]

Nice info, I guess it makes sense they used the extended front frame.

[GM_Guy]

At least I remembered to take a photo before she left, 1989 mgm front frame horn from the bottom.

Alex.

[alon]

having worked stap for 34 years this is the frame scoop as I know it. There were 5 frames in use for 1984 to 1991 box panthers that we built.

1. The heavy duty police frame.

2. Standard CV frame

3. CV wagon frame.

4. Standard GM frame.

5. GM wagon frame.

Now the wheel base of all frames is the same, being 114 inches.From the rad mounts to the middle of the rear axle hump the frames look identical.


The police and standard CV frames are the same overall length. The CV wagon is about 2inches longer at the back.

The standard GM is the same as standard CV frame except for the nose piece in front of the rad mounts. This is the same for the GM wagon as
compared to the CV wagon. If you notice the front header piece for the grille, the GM is longer than the CV. This gives the GM the long hood
look similar to a towncar. So the extensions on the frame is to push the bumpers out further to be inline with the longer header panel.


If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

[johnunit]

having worked stap for 34 years this is the frame scoop as I know it. There were 5 frames in use for 1984 to 1991 box panthers that we built.

1. The heavy duty police frame.

2. Standard CV frame

3. CV wagon frame.

4. Standard GM frame.

5. GM wagon frame.

Now the wheel base of all frames is the same, being 114 inches.From the rad mounts to the middle of the rear axle hump the frames look identical.


The police and standard CV frames are the same overall length. The CV wagon is about 2inches longer at the back.

The standard GM is the same as standard CV frame except for the nose piece in front of the rad mounts. This is the same for the GM wagon as
compared to the CV wagon. If you notice the front header piece for the grille, the GM is longer than the CV. This gives the GM the long hood
look similar to a towncar. So the extensions on the frame is to push the bumpers out further to be inline with the longer header panel.


If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

Was heavy duty only for the police, or was it for other options? Specifically I have a non-towpackage 351W Canadian car. Police brakes, no extra coolers though.

Also, does anyone have any specifics on where the extra bracing was for the police frames? It might make a good starting point for people wanting to stiffen stuff up.

[pantera77]

I know for one they have an extra brace at the front and rear of the frame, which all 92+ have