Rack and Pinion

[Crownvicman289]

It's my recent and unconfirmed personal belief that most strut cars rely more on KPI than caster for their on center feedback and ability to return to center (FWD). When I figure out how to measure KPI, I can provide some metrics from my Slorolla.

[gadget73]

KPI ?


Struts I just feel are a bit of a shit design anyway. Anything that relies on the shock absorber as the rotational bearing rather than an actual bearing plate or upper ball joint is just craptastic. Maybe when properly implemented they don't suck but the way Ford did it on the Fox platform pretty much bites. Volkswagen had bearing plates on the Superbeetle in the 70s. My 73 had a true coilover strut with a ball bearing plate up top. American manufacturers managed to do recirc ball with the paralellogram linkage and double A arms fairly well. They don't seem to have managed other systems all that wonderfully. Perhaps thats why I've got such a strong bias on the unequal length control arm and steering box setup, its the only thing I've spent any wheel time with that actually drives worth a damn.

[torquelover]

KPI = King Pin Inclination (angle)

[Crownvicman289]

And yes, the strut design does suck. Its purpose it to crank out econoboxes. Since they're the predominant ride of choice these days, that means lot of people are modding them. There are a lot of ways to shoot yourself in the foot when you start messing with the alignment on them thinking you're doing good.

[1987cp]

Greg, I'd forgotten you showing me those new strut designs back when I was learning the fun way that the spring and everything turns with the steering in a "normal" strut car! Though, going to that much effort to make a better strut makes one wonder what was wrong with fitting a double-A-arm suspension in the first place ....

[Crownvicman289]

Greg, I'd forgotten you showing me those new strut designs back when I was learning the fun way that the spring and everything turns with the steering in a "normal" strut car! Though, going to that much effort to make a better strut makes one wonder what was wrong with fitting a double-A-arm suspension in the first place ....

Only thing I can figure is clearance with a transverse mounted powertrain.

[1987cp]

"Clarence 13 ft 6 in"

Could be a point, though. I've helped a bit on an '88 Civic, and it looked plenty roomy for the engine the owner was putting in, but Wikipedia notes that the switch to struts for '01 was both to lower costs and to make room for a new engine series.

[P72Ford]

R&P >> recirc. ball.

Any time I drove anything with recirculating ball, I feel like I am chasing it all over the road. And its not because of worn components.

[torquelover]

"Clarence 13 ft 6 in"

Could be a point, though. I've helped a bit on an '88 Civic, and it looked plenty roomy for the engine the owner was putting in, but Wikipedia notes that the switch to struts for '01 was both to lower costs and to make room for a new engine series.

The '88 Civic had a proper upper and lower arm IFS. Maybe you were working on an older Civic? I had an '01 Civic and I hated it so much we traded it in on an '04 Camry, which we hated more, lol. The switch to the struts made a mess of the steering feel, and reliability of that car. Also, the cowl was much higher, killing the great view out Civics once had for many years.

Strut suspension is all about the cost, space, and ease of assembly and for the most part, it shows in the lackluster handling and feel. I've had a lot of FWD strut vehicles, and only one has felt decent.

R&P >> recirc. ball.

Any time I drove anything with recirculating ball, I feel like I am chasing it all over the road. And its not because of worn components.

I've been in a few that felt just fine, at least when new. Not much feel, but the precision, effort level, and linearity was fine. When Car and Driver did the original Lounge Lizard project, they had someone send them a blueprinted steering box that they said made a tremendous difference. I would like to know who that vendor was.

I'm not a fan of drive-by-wire, so it scares me to think a lot of newer cars are pretty much steer-by-wire now. Here's a diagram of an older BMW setup that should scare most of you:

[1987cp]

The '88 Civic had a proper upper and lower arm IFS. Maybe you were working on an older Civic? I had an '01 Civic and I hated it so much we traded it in on an '04 Camry, which we hated more, lol. The switch to the struts made a mess of the steering feel, and reliability of that car. Also, the cowl was much higher, killing the great view out Civics once had for many years.

Strut suspension is all about the cost, space, and ease of assembly and for the most part, it shows in the lackluster handling and feel. I've had a lot of FWD strut vehicles, and only one has felt decent.

Nope, it was definitely an '88, and I didn't feel that underhood space was a real problem on that car.