Weird wobbles and vibrations - help?

[Piece-it pete]

OK folks, I'm getting down to my last nerve on this one. Soon it'll be murder suicide - kill the car then myself!

2 seperate issues (I believe). 1985 Towncar. First, what I've done:

All new front end, inner and outer tierods, pitman, idler. All new suspension all the way around, including springs, shocks, upper and lower ball joints, sway bar bushings and end links. New rotors and drums. New bearings on all 4 corners, and good JY axles on the back.

Doing so much at once is part of the problem methinks, it's possible I have a defective part?

1st issue:

Front pass side wobble, speed dependent, can feel it in the steering wheel, braking or not: no difference. I've swapped tires, rims, etc. I even changed the shock.

I don't know if it was there before the rebuild, as the suspension and front end was shot. Can a defective ball joint cause this? Anything?

2nd issue:

Rear end vibration. Seems like it's coming from the pass side? Again, speed dependent, braking or not: no difference. It seemed to get bad when I changed the axles and bearings, but I also changed the rear tires to old bias truck tires at the same time.

I swapped the tires side to side with no difference. I did change the studs when I did the bearings/axles by putting the end of the axles on the floor and tapping them out with a BFH, and installing them by setting the bolt flange on top of a vise and tapping the new ones in. I did not go nuts on them.

My neighbor, who is a fair mechanic, says flatly it's the tires. I don't understand why then swapping them from side to side made no difference, but I'm an amateur. Before I spend yet more cash, does it seem pausible? I'm consdering disconnecting the bottom of the shock and checking for pressure. Is there anything else that could cause this?

There you have it folks, a clear confession of my wow-he's-not-very-good-is-he-ness :drug:

Any input MUCH appreciated.

Pete

[Merc3517]

I kind of agree with your friend. I am not going to guarantee it but think about it for a minute. If you had the same tires that you had before when the suspension was shot then they would be worn funny and when you tighten the suspension up you are going to feel those tires. If you got them from another car then same thing applies. Are all your tires balanced properly? You could have possibly not tightened a spindle nut right in the front, Did you seat the bearings with like 20ft/lb of torque and then back them off and put them finger tight? Perhaps you did it right but you didn't replace the nut locking mechanism so it may have backed off.

As for the rear, maybe you have a bent axle, maybe you have one or more bent rims. jack it up so you can spin the wheels by hand and place a socket on the ground next the the tire and spin the tire and observe if there is any change in the distance between the socket (or whatever you choose to use) and the tire. Check for play in any of your suspension and bearings. Did you get an alignment yet?

[Piece-it pete]

Thanks for the quick reply Merc!

Answers: Yes the tires were balanced (by an old timer who said they looked great), I've doublechecked the spindle nuts, heck checked the whole frontend for tightness, I know the rims on the back are (or at least were) good, I had it aligned after the front end work but before the rear axle change (do I need one after that?), the bearings seem fine.

I sure wish I had a set of tires to swap the rears out before spending any more $. My neighbor has a 97 Explorer, perhaps I can talk him into letting me use his for a test

And I'll try the socket test, I'll report back!

I've been leaning towards a bent axle in the back. But the front has been particularly mystifying.

Pete

[Merc3517]

I wouldn't think you need an alignment after a rear end swap. I don't think there is anything to adjust back there. Besides I am assuming you just swapped the axles and not the entire rear but either way I don't think you need an alignment for that. However they may have been able to tell you if something was bent but not worth like $60 to me to tell me something is bent. I hope you get it figured out and good luck.

[351m]

but I also changed the rear tires to old bias truck tires at the same time.


Pete

Get rid of the Bias ply tires... You shouldn't be mixing Bias and Radials at all.

But...

Here is a quote from the Michelin web site --(This goes back a few years, its something I had to dig up from an old hard drive)

" If two radial and two non-radial tires are installed on a vehicle, the two radials MUST be installed on the rear axle and the two non-radials on the front axle."

Keep in mind, you are adding tires with totally different handling characteristics and essentially creating a very big unknown as far as handling.

[Piece-it pete]

Oh the handling is kinda unknown alright

They (the bias) drive the car from the back axle. It's hard to explain.

Putting the 235 monster snows on the front really isn't an option (see attached). I'll have to use my neighbors wheels to see.

Dang it! And still the front issue. But thanks, I was afraid he might be right, so that's 3 votes for the tires regarding the rear.

Pete

[Merc3517]

I don't think I would have put those tires on my car. I am really weird when it comes to tires, I have to be able to feel them before I buy them. I don't know but for years I have been a pretty good judge of a tire by feeling it. Those look like they would be crappy anyway but maybe I am just crazy lol.

To me you would have been better off with some somewhat soft and supple all seasons than some stiff all terrain tires, especially on wet and icy roads but that's just me.

[Piece-it pete]

Everybody told me not to use them, but they are awesome and in great shape, brings out the stubborn Eastern European in me

Someone with a truck will love them. The sidewall rating is 1970 lbs each!

And I learned something about bias tires (I've never owned a pair).

Never buy them. Just kidding. They seem unforgiving and hard, but on ok pavement they actually ride very softly and smoothly.

I'm hoping to try them in the snow before they leave. We might get the opportunity Friday!

Pete

[gadget73]

When I thought I had a bent rear axle, it turned out to be a tire problem.



The bald spot is where the tire was bulged. The worn outer edge was from when that tire was up front with worn out parts. I removed it from the back of the car when it had the massive lump in it.

[Piece-it pete]

That is one messed up tire!

I hope to be able to do SOMETHING this weekend, I'll report back.

Pete

[zoomie]

i was going to say that it sounds like a bad belt or something

[sick88tbird]

Can you drive through it, or does it keeps getting worse with speed? I had a bad trans mount do some REALLY strange things....at low speeds it felt like the whole back of the car was wagging back and forth and would shake really bad between 47-65mph then went away. At low speeds it felt like a bent axle/tire issue in the rear and at higher speeds it felt like a front tire vibration.

Good luck,
Don

[Lincolnmania]

are the wheels ok? someone might have slammed into some curbs in the wheels past life

rule out the tires and the wheels, also how are the tires being balanced?
i have gotten new tires and had vibrations cause the numbnuts at the tire shops dont know how to balance a tire with a modern spin balancer.........luckilly the tire and alignment shop that i use now seems to have employees that give a shit......i havent had an issue with their work yet.

the shake up front.......are the rotors cheapies from china? maybe they are machined wrong at the hub......make sure tires and wheels are true first mang

[Andypot1985]

i'm also going to say tires. I had unbalanced wheels on my maxima and it was driving me nuts. At one point i thought i blew a strut.

[Piece-it pete]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I'm fairly certain the back is the tires. It only took 8 or 10 smart folks telling me repeatedly, doh! The cop rear sway I installed Thursday has dampened it a lot, I can cruise at 65 now with just irritating vibrations. Very irritating vibrations. Maddening, insanity provoking, I'm going postal vibrations.

I originally ruled tires/rims out because I swapped the tires back and forth with no difference, had the balance checked etc. Heck same with the front. Tires on, off, moved, on, off, I'll have popeye forearms soon! I yam what I yam.

I believe I found the front issue - a defective upper ball joint. Bah!

I've already changed the tranny mount. It better be good.

I'll replace the ball joint, at least it's easy and covered under warranty. I'm lucky to have found it. Tires have to wait as budget allows, and I think I've got a line on nice Lincoln 'lace' rims for cheap, I'll know soon.

It's a killer. The ride is SO CLOSE to better than new, with the poly bushings and larger sways. I want my Lincoln ride!

Updates as work done. And thanks again.

Pete