ABS in a Box

[tjc78]

I've had cars with and without ABS I'll take it every time. Never has failed me when it has kicked in. So either I'm lucky or it works. (considering just about every car made today has it standard I'll go with the latter)

[86VickyLX]

The arguement with snow and Abs can be all solved with a simple kill switch, or removal of the relay.

[1987cp]

Good for you... Try coming down the side of a mountain in the snow, where your "stomp and steer" method results in you gaining speed then get back to me.

:lol:

True, though - how does he "know" he'd have been in the ditch without ABS? I've never spent serious time in a car with ABS, and we don't have mountains in Michigan, so I obviously can't answer that question in the least.

[86VickyLX]

That and what the hell are you doing on a mountain when it's snowing anyway. Slowing down regardless of conventional brakes or abs, is gonna be a bitch cause you're going down hill. And your turning. Hope there's a guardrail....

[GoodSamaritan]

That and what the hell are you doing on a mountain when it's snowing anyway. Slowing do wn regardless of conventional brakes or abs, is gonna be a bitch cause you're going down hill. And your turning. Hope there's a guardrail....

Have you ever been to eastern Ky? There isn't a whole lot that isn't mountain. LOL. Anyway it was for work, the weather wasn't bad when I left the house, and I was helping out in an area I was unfamiliar with. I had no idea what I was getting into.

The thing with the abs was, that there was a lot of slick stuff along the outer edge of the road. The inside two tires were on relatively clear pavement. Every time I hit the brakes the left rear tire would lock up, for half a second, and then the abs would come on. I'm sure there are more sophisticated systems out there, but this truck just starts pulsing all 4 wheels and the truck wouldn't slow down. It would gain speed down the steep grade. Not as fast as if I had put it in neutral, but still it was gaining speed. There was a hairpin turn/switchback or whatever you want to call it at the bottom of the grade. (think of the road leveling out a little bit and doing a u turn) Oh and there was NO GUARDRAIL! Not that it would have mattered much considering the angle and the load I carry. Shortly after I got it to a spot where I could stop, I yanked the fuse and kept driving. Granted I'd have one or two wheels skid when I tried slowing down after that, but the truck actually slowed down when I put my foot on the brake.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. ABS is dangerous when it malfunctions. If you've never had a malfunction, that's good for you.
Unfortunately I've had quite a few. Then again, I average 70k to 100K miles a year for my job, and I have done so for going on 15 of the 22 years I've been driving. The only ABS vehicle I've never had act wonky at some point, is my 99 vic. Then again I've barely put 1000 miles on it.

Just off the top of my head I've had abs malfuctions in:
95 Taurus (rear ended a car in 1996 with less than 70k on the clock because the abs went nuts on a warm dry day. I rolled a good 5 or 6 car lengths into another car when just coasting up to a stop light. I was going maybe 25-30 when I started "slowing down" I still had time to try the brakes several times, then gear down and stomp the emergency brake before hitting. Fortunately by then I had slowed down enough that there was no damage. What if I had been on the interstate when this happened?

99 Taurus this is my Wife's work car. ABS got to coming on at random times so I yanked the fuse. Car stops fine now. (granted it had almost 200k when the problem started)

96 Town car. Father in law's low mileage creampuff.

(before anyone runs me out of town on a rail, all the chevy's but two were company vehicles. I've had far more fords, but they've all been older models)

97 Chevy 3/4 ton came on randomly during normal driving. (this truck would also randomly backfire every now and then and blow the muffler off. LOL. Ran perfect otherwise. My boss finally gave up on it and just had me drive it with no muffler.

99 1/2 ton This one kinda wasn't the ABS systems fault. It lost a brake line and the driver pumped the master cylinder dry. Multiple trips to multiple dealers, and two or three abs pumps&blocks later and the brakes still never really worked right. They were always super spongey after that.

98 Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4 (a friend's truck. it would come on in a dry parking lot as you were pulling into or backing out of a space)
99 Cadillac (belongs to a friend of mine)
2001 Chevy 3/4 ton Would come on while making a U turn or trying to navigate a sharp turn in a parking structure.
2003 Chevy 3/4 ton (coworkers truck, I drove for a while when mine was in the shop) Random activation. I stopped kinda quick at a light in the rain and the abs came on just as I stopped and then proceeded to pulse merrily away to itself as I sat there STOPPED at the light.
2006 Chevy 1 ton (mountain side story)


Having said all that. I'm sure there are systems that work flawlessly up to 250k miles +++. I've yet to put any real windshield time in one yet.

[1987cp]

the truck actually slowed down when I put my foot on the brake.

Wow! What a crazy concept!!! Why would you want the vehicle to slow down when you're on the STOP pedal?



My first experience with ABS was on a '95 Escort. No idea why an Escort would have come with ABS, but I had to drive one during a driver's ed class (that I mercifully didn't end up finishing, turned out having an appendectomy was a lot more fun) and it kept letting off the brakes entirely JUST as I was about to stop! Then it'd say "hehe, just messing with you" and finish stopping anyway. Every single time. Not exactly confidence-inspiring. And yes, that was on perfectly dry pavement.

I also rode in a realtor's '90-something LeSabre (or maybe Park Avenue, they look the same to me), and it went JERK-a-JERK-a-JERK-a every single time he went near the brakes. Also on a perfectly dry day. Now, it could have been horribly warped brake rotors, but I don't recall the jerking being consistent with road speed.


But anywhoo ..........

[johnunit]

I've never even heard a local first-hand account of an ABS screw up that wasn't the product of massively neglected/damagaed braking or steering systems. Very odd



/hijack

What 86vicky is doing is REALLY cool and, if nothing else, stretching the boundaries of what's done with these cars.

[GoodSamaritan]

I've never even heard a local first-hand account of an ABS screw up that wasn't the product of massively neglected/damagaed braking or steering systems. Very odd

Define massively neglected. It's a braking system. You replace the brake pads and rotors when they get worn. Other parts get replaced as needed. There isn't exactly a 3 month/3000 mile maintenance schedule on them.

/hijack

What 86vicky is doing is REALLY cool and, if nothing else, stretching the boundaries of what's done with these cars.

Good point. I hate ABS (can you tell?) but I can see the cool factor, the hard work/skill involved in what John is doing. I don't mean to take anything away from that. Sorry if I came across that way John.


























(I still hate ABS though)

[86VickyLX]

Good point. I hate ABS (can you tell?) but I can see the cool factor, the hard work/skill involved in what John is doing. I don't mean to take anything away from that. Sorry if I came across that way John.

That's fine. I'm sure you'll be the first to rub it in my face when I speed up trying to brake while going down a snowy mountain hill

[GoodSamaritan]

That's fine. I'm sure you'll be the first to rub it in my face when I speed up trying to brake while going down a snowy mountain hill

No... that would be in poor taste.
I'll wait for someone else to do it before I join in. LOL.

On a more serious note. I would trust the system you are putting in your car before I would trust a stock one that hasn't been looked at since it was new. You're anal enough to make sure it's working right before you trust it. I still suggest a kill switch though.


As for the mountain, you really ought to come down and take a ride with me on one of my eastern ky runs. 5-7% grades aren't all that unusual here. Heck there's 2 within a mile of my house, on the main road I take to work every day. They are on opposite sides of a 200' tall bridge that's shaped sorta like an "S". (Tyrone Bridge)

[1987cp]

As for the mountain, you really ought to come down and take a ride with me on one of my eastern ky runs. 5-7% grades aren't all that unusual here. Heck there's 2 within a mile of my house, on the main road I take to work every day. They are on opposite sides of a 200' tall bridge that's shaped sorta like an "S". (Tyrone Bridge)

LOL. I was feeling vaguely carsick in the Rochester area on hilly-twisties that my wife and her mom INSISTED weren't actually even hilly or twisty. Just because it's not superduperhorrid like Killingworth, CT ....

Silly hillyland people. If there's a difference in the height of the ground of more than a few feet, it's HILLY!

[86VickyLX]

No... that would be in poor taste.
I'll wait for someone else to do it before I join in. LOL.

On a more serious note. I would trust the system you are putting in your car before I would trust a stock one that hasn't been looked at since it was new. You're anal enough to make sure it's working right before you trust it. I still suggest a kill switch though.


As for the mountain, you really ought to come down and take a ride with me on one of my eastern ky runs. 5-7% grades aren't all that unusual here. Heck there's 2 within a mile of my house, on the main road I take to work every day. They are on opposite sides of a 200' tall bridge that's shaped sorta like an "S". (Tyrone Bridge)

I might take you up on that offer one of these days.

On another note, 1987CP, I'm sorry I didn't explain the operation of the pedal travel switch correctly. It's a secondary input to the ABS control unit. Should the brake switch happen to fail. When the pedal is at rest, the switch has continuity, and 5 volts passes through the switch, and back to the control unit. When the brake pedal is depressed, the switch is open.

[86VickyLX]

Pedal assembly is swapped in. Works the same as before. I wanted to swap the brake booster as well. But due to differences in the later master cylinders, this wasn't going to happen without swapping the master cylinder (which I'm not ready to do!). 88+ booster no fit a 87 down master cylinder. And vice versa. I tested the function of the switch. It reads continuity when the pedal isn't pressed and no continuity when pressed. I ran the wiring through the firewall and that is now attached to the main harness of the ABS computer. I also tied in the BOO switch trigger on there too. So basically, all of the wiring is taken care of besides the actual wheel speed sensors, and a jumper wire to make the ABS (formally aka low oil) light function. Don't know when I'm gonna finish this. I still have to modify the drivers side inner fender so I can fit the Hydraulic control unit in place, I also have to do the big brake swap.

[mercurygm88]

Hey john any more progress on this?

[86VickyLX]

Hey john any more progress on this?

No. Project on stand by till I get 2 more HPPs, tires, and the big brake pieces I'm missing. Then I will continue the swap.