NO oil leak, possible timing issues...

[ltdcrwnvic]

if you've been following my journey these past few weeks, you would know dat ive been going through some hard times. replaced da rear intake seal only to have it move and leak water on me(those pesky rubber seals). had to go back, buy all seals and gaskets again, drain da brand new oil b/c of possible coolant contamination(which there was) and re-do everything. did it all over again in 2 days and was ready to fire but only this time it wouldn't start. right away you guys told me it was the timing on da distributor. i messed with it for about 2 hrs and got it up and running but it was backfiring nasty.

took it to some lil shop and they fixed da timing but now they're saying its not da timing dats messed up, they say there is sumthing electronically wrong with it. here are the symptoms:
1- its a bitch to start it up, usually 5 or 6 times
2- it dies on me after i get it turned on, have to give it some gas
3- when taking it on a run, it stutters when i step on da throttle
4- every gear stutters to go in
5- there is a weird noise everytime i step on da throttle. not the stuttering but a noise, its hard to describe.

by da way, when i plugged in all da wires back up to da cap, they told me it was hooked up wrong. i followed da firing order to da letter, da ones you guys posted for me on here, and they said it was wrong? why is dat?
i was thinking maybe while removing the distributor it got damaged and its dat. i have another one laying around. ill take it over to them and see if its dat. but wat do you guys( THE EXPERTS ) think it is???

[Mercmarquis]

[QUOTE=ltdcrwnvic]
1. hard to start is probably the timing set to far advanced or even retarded
2. If it dies at idle its probably to far retarded
3. stuttering is probably the timing
5. wierd noise is probably pinging (or pinking). Does it sound like someone is shaking a can of marbles? or Like a really wierd chicken?


If they are trying to tell you that the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, that is wrong.

I think that your timing is set retarded, I had the same problems when I first fired my car up after the carb swap. Try loosening the hold down just so the distributor can rotate and try rotating the distributor clockwise about and inch or more and see if it helps any, if it gets worse go the other way till it gets better, trial and error style, but you really need a timing light to do it correctly cause that shop you are going to sounds like a fucking rip off that doesnt know anything.

[gadget73]

If they didn't set the timing with the spout unplugged, it will be way retarded and run like poo. For some reason many places seem incapable of setting Ford timing correctly.

Here is how its done, with pictures to boot.

Firstly, get under the car and have a look at the balancer. This is directly behind the crank pulley. You may need to bump the motor over a couple times, but eventually you'll find the timing marks. You do NOT want the big groove cut into the balancer. It has nothing to do with timing on a Ford. There will be 2 sets of marks, most of them range from 10 ATDC to 30 BTDC. You're looking for the BTDC side. Make a line on 10 BTDC with chalk, a paint marker, or whatever.

(pardon the crap pics, this camera sucks)


The small mark in that pic is 0, the long one is 10.

Next, hook up your timing light to the #1 spark plug wire. #1 is the front cylinder on the right side of the engine, or the passenger side for most of us. Hook up + and - leads to the battery.

Remove the SPOUT connector. This will be found next to the distributor. You're looking for the black square connector on most cars. it looks like this:


Some earlier cars, like 84-85 models, may have a black round connector that looks like a fuseholder for the SPOUT.

Locate the timing pointer. This is on the right side of the engine down by the harmonic balancer. If you look down at an angle where the AC compressor is, you'll find it. Its a bit hard to see so you may have to shuffle around a bit to get a good line of sight. Looks like this:



You can actually see my timing marks on the new balancer in that picture. The large line is 10, small marks on 12 and 14.

Now for the fun part. After checking to make sure no wires or limbs are going to get caught in the belts or fan, start the engine. Shine the timing light down at the pointer. When it flashes, the mark on the balancer will light up. It should line up with the edge of that timing pointer. If it does not, shut the motor down and loosen the distributor slightly with whatever tool you deem appropriate for the task. Fire the motor again and rotate the distributor untill the marks line up. Kill the engine and re-tighten the distributor. Start it again to verify the distributor did not move when it was tightened down.

At this point you're done. Plug the SPOUT back in, unhook the timing light, and close the hood. If you wish to verify the timing is being advanced by the computer, plug the SPOUT in and look where the timing mark is relative to the pointer. It should have moved.

[ltdcrwnvic]

went to go see wat was up with my car. i took over another distributor i had and they're supposed to replace da old one with this one and time it again. hopefully its dat. they were thinking it could be da ignition module.if they cant get it to run then ill just buy my own timing light and tweak at it again myself.

[ltdcrwnvic]

back to da shop and other distributor was installed. car turned on quickly on da first try. but da stuttering is still there. if i drive like a normal person i guess dat would be fine b/c all gears go in smouth but without really stepping on da throttle. if i wanna give it some more gas to go a bit faster da stuttering begins and i even heard a loud bang(backfire) when i tried to do it. old distributor was fucked and now i want to replace spark plugs and wires to see if dat'll get her up and running like before. wat do you guys think? still timing issues? can a wrong firing order setup be causing this too? ill check it later when the sun goes down. im pretty sure they put in da wrong one like you guys said.
btw, wat spark plugs do you guys recommend? bosch? bosch platinum? different brand? how about wires? are the ford racing wires for mustangs compatible for our cv's? whats da gap on da spark plugs for our boxes again? i always forget it.... sorry

[gadget73]

Ford ignition modules either work or they don't 99% of the time. Usually if it runs at all, the module is OK but stranger things have been known to happen. The fact the car is still running screwed up tells me something else is wrong. Are all your vacuum lines and electrical plugs hooked up? If one of those vac lines is missing off the intake, it will affect how it runs. Also make sure the vac lines fit snugly and are not pinched off.

[ltdcrwnvic]

now dat you say dat, i was wondering about da 2 vaccum lines(red and green) dat go hooked up behind da upper intake. da green one comes from da left side with all the other vaccum lines, and da red one comes from da lower intake manifold. facing da car, da green vac. line i hooked it into da left spout on da intake, and da red vac. line from da lower intake, i hooked it onto da right spout of da intake. is this correct?
ill check all da vac. lines in da morning again.

[ltdcrwnvic]

wat spark plug wires do you guys recommend? ford racing, msd, autolite, accel, bosch, mallory, motorcraft, borg warner, niehoff? and wat spark plugs do you guys recommend buying? bosch and autolite are the most commonly ones used. but which one? double platinum and so on. i need to change all of it anyways. which ford racing wires will fit my cv?

[ltdcrwnvic]

checked all vac lines, connectors, etc and took some pics. let me know if you guys find something out of place.

[88grandmarq]

2 obvious things jump out in the pictures

1) why is the #1 plug wire going off to the drivers side the motor? #1 cylinder is on the passenger side front, almost directly under the AC compressor.

2) you have the red and green vaccum hose backwards... the green hose goes on the EGR valve and the red hose goes on the back of the upper intake manfold.

[88grandmarq]

looking at the picture of the distributor cap again, it appears you have the plug wires in the wrong order.

starting at the #1 position, the wires follow the firing order (1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8) in a counter clockwise direction.
The cylinders are numbered 1-4 on the passenger side starting at the front of the motor, cylinders 5-8 are on the drivers side.

[ltdcrwnvic]

dats exactly how i set them when i finished puttin everythin back. for some reason when i took it over to dis shop to get timed, i took another distributor and they set it like dat. i right away switched them to da proper firing order like you mentioned and da car wont start. switched it over to how they set it, it starts. basically the only difference dat i noticed was dat where da #1 is on da cap, #8 was placed there and then da rest of da other #'s follow like this: 8-1-5-4-2-6-3-7 dont know why dat is though.
as for da red hose, dat also goes to da back of da intake? dat would mean dat there would be 2 red hoses connected to da back of da intake then, right? b/c in da back i have a red and a green, and dat long red one goin over to da egr. so switch da red one to da egr over to da back of da intake and switch da green one over to da egr?

[88grandmarq]

Yes, swap the red and green vaccum lines.

if the motor wont start with the correct firing order, its timed 180 degrees out
, or on the exhaust stroke, instead of the intake stroke.

[ltdcrwnvic]

damn, i switched da vac lines. both red lines on da back of da intake and da green one on da egr and still da same thing. 180 degrees? dat mean i have to twist it back or forward half a turn? well it was kinda weird when i saw da setup cuz i know #1 goes wit da #1 on da cap and when i saw #8 on there i was all like, 'what?'
basically set da correct firing order on da cap, twist da distributor around til it turns on properly correct, or do i have to do da whole move da crank wit da #'s on da harmonic balancer and shit???

[88grandmarq]

you need to pull the distributor and time the motor correctly.

turn the motor manually and line up the timing pointer with the Zero mark on the harmonic balancer. pull the distributor cap and check the position of the rotor button, if its pointed towards the radiator (#6 position on the cap)pull the distributor and reinstall it so the rotor button lines up with the #1 position on the cap.