88 Roller 302 Refresh ????'s

[marquis_82_withneons]

ive raided the search bar and found conflicting info with what i want to do. my 82 is getting a temporary heart transplant for tweaking the 5spd swap. the motor is an 88 roller from my Grand marq i parted. i got it on a stand stripped down, aside from the rotating assembly. im gonna clean it up. replace the worn AF top end and make it work. cam, lifters, and pushrods are gabage. in theory i want a very basic upgraded stock refresh to throw in while i work out the kinks for the 5 spd. i want to pull other stock parts or easily obtainable parts from other applications to make... lets say 50hp more than stock. it will be carbed, and emissions free, sent of well used BBK shorties, and 2.5" duals. my initial thought after a bit of research was to take my stock shortblock, clean up and massage the e6 heads and toss in some fresh parts. i lapped the valves and am cleaning up the oil and coolant passages. im thinking of running an explorer cam? or other reputable option for otherwise bone stock engine. The rest (lifters, pushrods) will be stock ford parts.. are valve springs something that people replace during this? i can only assume 200k isnt ideal. lol

[Tiggie]

First - what killed you stock lifters, cam, and pushrods?

Comparing some stock figures:
1986 Mustang HO with E6 heads and HO cam was rated at 200hp.
1996 Explorer with GT40 heads and Explorer cam was 210hp

A cam change to either of the above with a good dual plane 4-bbl intake and exhaust will put you around 200 horses with E6 - up 50 from stock (on an 88). Probably an easy 240hp on the better GT40 or p heads. If you use the GT40 or p heads, change the valve springs. With E6, i’d reuse because you won’t need anything over 4500rpm because the heads will be done.

[marquis_82_withneons]

im going to assume weak oil pressure. always seemed to have a noisy startup when it was in the car. there was a lot of crud buildup in the top end from neglect and i believe it to have roughly 215k on it. ill be tossing a new oil pump in either way. When looking at the cam through the holes in the intake area, i can plainly see the coating on the cam has been wore through significantly. so i figure at very least i need a cam, might as well match with new lifters. new pushrods as well since mine are quite cruddy as well.

i was debating on the gt40s as the explorer is pretty common around me, but i cant get the motivation to go digging in a frozen junkyard, plus its giving me the hands on aspect. this is the first engine ive had apart so im starting simple and thought i clean up the stock heads. the 70' 351w buried in the corner is gonna get all the special attention. but for now, a solid, torquey motor to feel out the new setup will be better than the 255 currently under the hood.

i was considering springs mainly since it was all going to be new in there.

side note, most of my replacing will be due more so to wear as opposed to a performance increase.

[gadget73]

Are those parts actually worn or does it just look funny? There is no coating on these other than what gets there from oil. When clean the entire lobe should be well polished steel. If you can't feel a wear groove with a fingernail, its nothing to worry about.

If they are worn, I'd suspect deeper problems in the engine. The cam almost never wears unless something has gone very bad. If its worn, expect cam bearings and all of the bearings in the bottom end to be wiped out. That will explain low oil pressure too.

Honestly I'd have a real hard time putting anything beyond gaskets into a stock non-HO engine. The money and time required is the same as it would be to refresh a better engine.

[marquis_82_withneons]

im using the 302 because its what i got, and when it has served its purpose, the car will be ready for a 351 to drop in and turn the key.

im debating on checking clearances on the bottom end but id like to leave it untouched. i guess ill pull the cam to inspect it.

[gadget73]

if its low on oil pressure, I'd pretty much guarantee its bottom end bearing related.

[knucklehead0202]

GT40 iron heads are cheap as chips, don't bother with the P crap. Not sure about there but you can't swing a dead cat around here without finding some gt40 heads. Personally i wouldn't waste the time but they're a jillion times better than shitty e6's. That being said, this is a stopgap motor, just whack it in with whatever basic shit you can and run some thickass oil in it to keep the pressure up.

[marquis_82_withneons]

if its low on oil pressure, I'd pretty much guarantee its bottom end bearing related.

I don't know if its oil pressure or not. It
Was loud on startup. But never any other symptoms of oil starvation. It's just really worse because the PO was a fucking moron.

GT40 iron heads are cheap as chips, don't bother with the P crap. Not sure about there but you can't swing a dead cat around here without finding some gt40 heads. Personally i wouldn't waste the time but they're a jillion times better than shitty e6's. That being said, this is a stopgap motor, just whack it in with whatever basic shit you can and run some thickass oil in it to keep the pressure up.

I guarantee I can find at least a 2 pair of each gt40 and P heads at my local yard. Probalem is their Ford section always floods and its frozen right now.

And seeing as a used X cam is like 100, I probably won't bother unless the stock one is completely done and grooved to shit.

[gadget73]

rattle on startup is usually sloppy bearings.

[marquis_82_withneons]

well i guess ill find out then... i just wonder how it can rotate so smoothly on the stand if its that wore. when i first started on it, it was very difficult to turn over, even with plugs out. something was binding up. probably the rattle i was hearing. but since the heads have been pulled, it rotates very smooth. no ridges in the cylinders, crosshatch is still present, pistons were very crusty but undamaged underneath it all.

if the binding is only there with heads on, what does that say for the heads? would that have been a stuck valve?, a dead lifter? dare i say bent vent? but why on a stock engine.. i dont know, thinking out loud. thanks guys.

[gadget73]

Loose bearings are easy to rotate, they have excessive clearance. With the valvetrain parts in you have to overcome spring pressure and make all that work when you rotate it.

[marquis_82_withneons]

be worth changing crank bearings?

[gadget73]

Crank and main, if they are worn. If you see copper when the caps are off, they're worn. The trick is that you need to measure the crank to see if its in spec or if it needs to be turned down and fitted with undersize bearings.

[marquis_82_withneons]

shiiiiit..... really didnt want to go this far for with this engine. just supposed to be a junk motor to toss in, but im not trying to have it die after a thousand miles either.. oh well. i guess ill check clearances and replace accordingly?

[gadget73]

I tend to be of the "do it right or don't bother" mentality. Short of getting all the measuring stuff to do it right, put new gaskets in it and run it.