Ideling issue and dies on hot days while driving

[EaOutlaw1969]

I do agree Ford and a few other manufacturers sure made it much harder back in the day to try and diagnose problems.

Yet it does not hold a candle to today’s modern vehicles.

The further we get with technology the more I wish I could go back in time to a much simpler life. LOL

[DerekTheGreat]

Got a few family firearm heirlooms that will be passed down to my children in similar fashion. People that sell shit like that are dicks. Just bought an MT2500 and some cartridges. Can't wait to try it out.

Just be sure they appreciate it. If not, then don't bother. I've met too many enthusiasts who never instilled their hobby in their offspring and so said offspring didn't appreciate what was passed to them. $$$ is all they see. When I drive my Firebird, I see my dad. I know after me it will mean nothing but that's why I won't just give it to someone.

Try your MT on a GM vehicle or anything post Ford box and you'll be impressed. Road testing my truck with that thing connected is fun, you can see how fuel trims are doing, sensors, if things are opening like the EVAP system and such.. Try it on your box and be underwhelmed. Get a Blue Driver for anything OBDII. Pretty neat to be able to look at and do things with your phone.

I do agree Ford and a few other manufacturers sure made it much harder back in the day to try and diagnose problems.

Yet it does not hold a candle to today’s modern vehicles.

The further we get with technology the more I wish I could go back in time to a much simpler life. LOL

That's why I essentially live like it's 1996. Troubleshooting is still difficult with modern vehicles, codes & even data or lack thereof only sends you on a hunt. What I can't stand with new stuff is also the use of plastic, everywhere. I don't care what the chemistry of it is or what it's rated to handle it will still fail long before a slab of iron or steel will. I also wonder if they are still using one part across multiple platforms. Like with our sensors and such how we can scavenge other models to find what we need. That's a great boon for my GM truck, I'll tell ya that. They kept those things the same for many years and made multiple vehicles over different platforms so parts are never in short supply.

[EaOutlaw1969]

Yes each year vehicles get more expensive with new mandatory safety equipment and less stuff we really want.

Worse of all after ten years your SOL the overpriced plastic junk is rotted away and new parts are no longer available to the point where the average person is forced into a permanent car payment on a upside down plastic crap box.

I bought the Mercury Grand Marquis because it is the least expensive best quality econo plastic box I could afford.

Yet I really wanted something anything much older.

Keep in mind I like my MGM but I could do without the tons of plastic it has.

Plastic is bad enough but they should be forced to produce replacement parts for 20 or 30 years not 10 years.

[gadget73]

They weren't making it difficult to diagnose by not having live sensor data available, the technology just did not exist to allow it at that point. By the early 90s the processors got a little more advanced and you could get the sensor data. Prior to that you got the breakout box, or the EEC datalogger tool, or if you were a plebe you back-probe the sensors with a multimeter and translate the meter readings.

[DerekTheGreat]

Yes it did, GM TBI my friend. I've been able to stream live data on anything GM I've touched so far, my '89 Firebird, our '89 K1500 and our '88 C3500. All made the same time as my '88 TC, Ash's '89 TC and then her '91 VII which behaves like the other earlier Ford stuff we tested. I think if a dude swaps the harness out to a later one or adds wires or swaps to a newer Ford ECM and then punches in the information so the MT2500 thinks it's scanning a later ECM it'll work. I haven't looked at the EEC harness close enough to see the differences between the '92 F150 and the '91 VII. I'm going to fire from the hip and say there are more wires running to the EEC connector on the F150.

[gadget73]

Ford's EEC-IV came out in 1984 and didn't really get a significant re-visit until about '91, and that was phased in gradually. Seems like when they went to electronic transmissions, the ECM got datastream abilities. I suspect they needed to upgrade the processor to make the trans shift, and that also let it spit out sensor data. Perhaps GM started with a smarter processor, but I doubt Ford actively hid the sensor data. Its also not impossible that they never even considered being able to access it from a scan tool. The shop manuals explain how to read the sensor outputs, its just inconvenient to do it since it needs the BOB or the datalogger thing. Having the ability to just spit out sensor info on a scanner would have cut back considerably on dealer diagnostic time under warranty, which Ford should have been in favor of. I've got a stack of old training manuals, and there is heavy emphasis on reducing diagnostic and repair time by using the manuals and TSB lists to speed up troubleshooting and reduce un-needed parts replacement.

The actual connector didn't change, but there may be a few more wires if its got an electronic trans. The engine controls changed fairly little from the CFI days right through the end of EEC-IV on the Windsor motors.

[sly]

The processor that Ford used (intel 8061) was barely enough to do what it did. GM did use a faster processor. I know a guy at work that used to work for the company that sold the parts to the companies that built those modules for the OEMs. The one used in the Fords is basically a custom 8051 microcontroller with a good overclock if I remember correctly.

[DerekTheGreat]

It's simple coding. They could have passed by reference or something like that and they didn't do it. If the ECM can intercept and handle the data, so too could a scan tool. Just no pass-by-reference. I haven't been able to verify with old GM stuff ('84-'87) if I can read data or not but I'd be willing to wager it's possible. I see it as an early money-grab as you had to buy their break-out box to make stuff easier. Just like now how with modern crap you need to spend big money to be able to do certain things the cheaper scan tools won't do.

"
The actual connector didn't change, but there may be a few more wires if its got an electronic trans. The engine controls changed fairly little from the CFI days right through the end of EEC-IV on the Windsor motors.
"

Right, I think I might've mentioned in an earlier post that maybe the newer ones have more wires. For that pass-by-reference shit they should've & could've incorporated years ago.