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    #1

    Questionable lifters

    Hello--

    I have a few questions about lifters. I am currently converting my 5.slow into an HO motor (had most of a '86 gt motor laying around) until my 351w is ready to drop in. I am using the stock '86 mustang gt cam with gt40 heads and the stock rocker arms. I was curious about how you adjust the rocker arms, and read two different methods:

    1. tighten the bolt while its running till it stops ticking, or
    2. spin the rod with your fingers and tighten the bolt till the rod is snug, then go another 1/2 - 3/4 turn.

    I am opting for the 2nd method since it is damn near impossible to get the valve covers off with the accessories on. Anyways, I noticed that some of the rods still spun even though the rocker arm bolt was tightened down all the way. I swapped out the push rod and rocker arm on the loose ones, and no dice. So, I tried swapping out a lincoln lifter with a mustang lifter on one of them (first one of the few loose ones), and it fixed the problem! I was able to get the rocker adjusted without tightening the bolt all the way.

    Now, I am new to working on push rod motors, and I reaaaaaallly don't want to mess this motor up by having misadjusted rocker arms. Seeing as the mustang lifter fixed the one rocker arm I tried, could it be possible that the lincoln lifters are bad / going bad?
    Tags: None
    #2
    You can't really adjust them on a pedistal mount, torque em to 25 ftlbs IIRC and let them fly. Only way to change preload is spacers and/or different pushrods.
    In my experience if the deck or block hasn't been decked a silly amount the stock push rods usually work fine. I don't think there is a difference between HO and lopo lifters.
    2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
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    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
      You can't really adjust them on a pedistal mount, torque em to 25 ftlbs IIRC and let them fly. Only way to change preload is spacers and/or different pushrods.
      In my experience if the deck or block hasn't been decked a silly amount the stock push rods usually work fine. I don't think there is a difference between HO and lopo lifters.
      Hm, should I not worry about the few that are a little loose? I looked at rock auto, and the lifters, pushrods, and rockers are all the same between the lopo, ho, and explorer motor. I may wait until someone else weighs in before snugging everything up.

      Comment

        #4
        They should hit zero lash about 1/2-3/4 of a turn before they hit torque. You can only check this when the valves are in the fully closed position. If you really want to be anal about it, you'll have to set up a dial indicator and verify how far the lifter compresses from zero lash to full torque but most of the time you don't need to do that. I have done it to verify things with non-stock parts and its a pain in the ass. You'll spend more time shuffling the indicator around than anything else.

        Stock heads, stock cam, stock rockers should be perfectly fine with stock pushrods.
        86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
        5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

        91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

        1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

        Originally posted by phayzer5
        I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
          They should hit zero lash about 1/2-3/4 of a turn before they hit torque. You can only check this when the valves are in the fully closed position. If you really want to be anal about it, you'll have to set up a dial indicator and verify how far the lifter compresses from zero lash to full torque but most of the time you don't need to do that. I have done it to verify things with non-stock parts and its a pain in the ass. You'll spend more time shuffling the indicator around than anything else.

          Stock heads, stock cam, stock rockers should be perfectly fine with stock pushrods.
          what if they dont hit zero lash when the bolt hits torque?

          Comment

            #6
            then something isn't stock, or you have bad parts someplace. Either change whatever isn't stock or get longer pushrods. It should be 20-60 thousandths less than zero lash actually, the lifter must compress slightly.

            The other trick that is often overlooked, there is a geometry thing involved here. Longer pushrods will fix the preload, but depending on whats going on it may also need shims to get the contact pattern between the valve stem and the rocker tip centered and correct. More shims mean less preload, so longer pushrod. The valve tip has to be inked and the motor rotated around to confirm the contact pattern if you go changing stuff. Side loading the valves will wear out the valve guides.
            Last edited by gadget73; 11-17-2017, 12:24 AM.
            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

            Originally posted by phayzer5
            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
              then something isn't stock, or you have bad parts someplace. Either change whatever isn't stock or get longer pushrods. It should be 20-60 thousandths less than zero lash actually, the lifter must compress slightly.

              The other trick that is often overlooked, there is a geometry thing involved here. Longer pushrods will fix the preload, but depending on whats going on it may also need shims to get the contact pattern between the valve stem and the rocker tip centered and correct. More shims mean less preload, so longer pushrod. The valve tip has to be inked and the motor rotated around to confirm the contact pattern if you go changing stuff. Side loading the valves will wear out the valve guides.
              Everything is stock. That is why I think my lifters are not in good shape. So far, I have checked the right side of the motor, and out of the 8 lifter, I'd say 3 of them I am able to spin the rod with the bolt at the torque point, and 1 of them, when it was torqued, there was still up and down movement in the rod. That is the one I changed the lifter on, and it corrected the issue. Should I pick up a set of new lifters to be safe?

              Comment

                #8
                See this shit exactly is why on this last engine I'm putting together I'm going with the stud conversion kit. Fuck this shim bullshit, and constantly torquing and untorquing wimpy-ass 5/16" hardware. What gets me is I've seen a 351 engine with studded heads from the factory, so much easier to adjust things with that setup... But no, 302 heads get the stupid pedestal mount, which yeah it's great for stock parts but once you start throwing some upgrades in the mix it gets annoying quick.

                And I just so happen to have two of those conversion kits brandy new in the box still (online parts supplier fuckup, return is too much of a hassle), would go great with some 1.72 roller rockers
                The ones who accomplish true greatness, are the foolish who keep pressing onward.
                The ones who accomplish nothing, are the wise who know when to quit.

                Comment

                  #9
                  If the lifter can be compressed by hand, its probably working. There is a spring in there that pushes the plunger up. If the plunger is stuck down internally, they're toast but honestly that rarely happens. You may still be able to spin the pushrod even at or less than zero lash, but can you move it up and down is the real question. You'll feel it if there is.


                  Proper way to do studs if you want better than the 5/16 involves drilling and tapping the holes for something larger, otherwise you're still holding it all together with a 5/16 thread. You also still have to make sure the geometry is right. Even if the lash is proper with the adjustment, if the contact is off-center it will eat the guides up.
                  86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                  5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                  91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                  1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                  Originally posted by phayzer5
                  I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                  Comment

                    #10
                    My edelbrocks have the crane "stud conversion kit" on them. You might think it's still weak because they're still threaded into the 5/16" holes but keep in mind that they're also linked together so you're doubling that. 10/16"=5/8" so...not bad. I'd still rather have real stud-mount heads, but not enough to spend more money on it than I need to. Next heads I buy will be stud-mount. For now i'll run what I've got.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      So if I'm reading this correctly, when I torque the rocker, they'll be okay as long as there isn't up and down movement...?

                      Comment

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