Timeing chain cover!

[Whosondephone]

I managed to crack my timing chain cover while taking it off. I was trying to wedge behind one of the top screw holes that bolt to the engine block. The right, driver side, bolt to be exact.

Prior, I snapped off the right most water pump screw which was holding the cover to the block. Should I replace the timing cover? Or can I JBweld it back together. I'm between jobs right now. I'm not used to being this cheep. There seems to be a big hole in the aftermarket ones. It seems it is for a crank sensor? I feel that the extra gasket and flimsy cover would be almost as bad as my repair.

I hope to get picks up soon.

[Whosondephone]

Rockauto wants about $100 for one. I'll see what they can do at the local auto parts store. I'm not thinking a repair will be pretty.

[gadget73]

personally I'd replace it.

where it is though, if cash really is a problem you can probably fix it with jb-weld if you get it extremely clean. Its not under pressure, about all that gets up there is oil slung off the chain.

[Whosondephone]

You're right. The time it would take to clean it is not worth salvaging it. Thanks.

[adam.w.ackerman]

Replace it, this are not reverse flow right? I think I only gave like $30 for the cover for my Bronco. You try a pick and pull but it might be a crap shoot.


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[gadget73]

standard rotation, even though the Mustang ran the same cover with a reverse rotation pump. No I don't understand, but they did it. Makes the part available at any rate. if it fits an F150 or a Mustang the parts can be had for not a lot of cash.

[Whosondephone]

I have a question about the gaskets. I have used Permatex silicone gasket maker with the paper gaskets. I have used the water pump version around the water holes and the high temperature everywhere else. The instructions in the repair manual say to apply a thin coating of silicone to the gaskets. The Permatex silicone label says to apply a bead and let set, then torque to spec. I tried to follow both instructions however opting not to apply a large bead. My concern being I was not able to get the cover in place before the silicone's outer layer hardened.

I'm in a panic because I'm supposed to be going for an orientation on Sunday for my new job and I'm spraying antifreeze down the passenger side of the engine. It runs beautifully with the new timing chain. Is there a way to know if the timing cover is leaking internally? My better judgement suggests that paper gaskets are a lousy choice to use with a water pump. Would I be better off using only the silicone? What about using the Permatex Aviation form a gasket for this application?

I did opt to replace the timing cover. Although the best place I could find one was Although I'm expecting the driver side of the the transmission support beam to dislodge this spring due to corrosion.

[gadget73]

I usually do a very thin wipe around the water ports, mostly to hold the gasket, and put it together. Dab of sealer, spread it with your finger so its an even but thin coat. By the time you have everything else assembled it should be cured enough for coolant. I always just use the standard timing set gaskets, never silicone only, and I've never had problems with it. Just make sure the gasket surfaces are clean and flat, it'll be ok.

a little pipe dope or some silicone on the long bolts that run into the water jacket are not a terrible idea though. Water can get around the threads and leak past the bolt. Thats why those bolts seize in there in the first place. Silicone will come loose at least. Don't need much either.

if it leaks water internally, you'll see the oil turning into a milkshake.

honestly I am no big fan of sealer. Used improperly it causes more leaks than not using it does, and if your gasket surfaces aren't shot you mostly don't need it anyway. Unfortunately the water port faces often have some pitting and a paper gasket won't make up for that.

[His Royal Ghostliness]

Ford's design is fuckin stupid on those water pumps. Exiting the pump the coolant has to pass thru three gaskets before it enters the engine block, the last one of which if it leaks will dump the coolant right into the oil pan. Admittedly that's rarely the case, typically it's the water pump's own internal paper gasket that pisses, the one between the pump body and the steel plate. Which happens cause the stupid POS has a huge area yet it's not really supported very well at all thruout its surface, unless you got the HD cast iron pump that is, which most cars didn't get. If I had a small-block Ford engine and a Bridgeport vertical mill I'd be VERY tempted to machine at least the timing cover for some o-rings, that would be a much better setup than the factory clusterfuck. (this is also why 4.6 pumps are so nice, one big o-ring is all they use and need to seal, right against the engine block too).

In any case, I've been using the grey RTV on ALL the 302/351 paper gaskets, and I'd do RTV-only well before I do paper gasket alone. With the RTV you wait till it cures a bit, tighten the fuck outta the bolts (within their torque specs), wait out the night till it cures completely, and you're done. With the paper gaskets the shit compresses, so after a while you probably wanna go in and retorque all the bolts (they can certainly use it). Except you really can't do that easy, cause all the accessories are hanging off the water pump. There's shitload of import stuff put together with just RTV, most leaks I've seen have been worn out shaft seals and other such stuff, not the RTV seal between the metal parts. Manual transmissions (at least the light-duty stuff, like F450 and smaller) also use RTV only between their halves, I'm yet to see one that leaks there instead of a shaft seal or the top cover (which usually has a paper gasket btw). Aluminum X-fer cases, same stuff - your leak will typically be a shaft seal or the drain plug, not the seam between the two halves of the case...

That said, I think someone should try the copper spray on the gaskets during their next timing cover or water pump job. It works great for diesel oil coolers that see higher both temperature and oil pressure than any small-block water pump or timing cover, so it may just be the fix for Ford's craptastic design as well.

[Whosondephone]

Turns out it was just the bypass hose. All that worrying for nothing. Oil looks clean as a whistle. no visible leaks after replacement. I greatly appreciate the in depth explanations. That coper spray looks impressive!

[kishy]

That said, I think someone should try the copper spray on the gaskets during their next timing cover or water pump job. It works great for diesel oil coolers that see higher both temperature and oil pressure than any small-block water pump or timing cover, so it may just be the fix for Ford's craptastic design as well.

I do all paper/fiber gaskets with the Permatex copper spray, including when I replaced the timing set on the Lincoln. It's magic stuff. For cork or rubber though, I either use nothing, or use RTV as a sealer.

[Whosondephone]

After a couple 4 hour drives I'm noticing some antifreeze pooling on the right side of the timing cover. I don't know if it leaking out the front or the back of the timing cover. I guess It could be worse.

[gadget73]

sure its not from the thermostat or one of the hoses?

[sly]

the right side staring at the engine or the passenger side of the car? If the right side while staring at the engine, I always had problems with that on the Mad Marquis until I got the lower intake gaskets and timing cover gasket replaced. No clue which one was the issue though since it was all done at the same time.

[Whosondephone]

sure its not from the thermostat or one of the hoses?

F****** NAILED IT!

Thermostat! All is well!

Staring at the engine the left side drains. I must have had extra silicone on the right side.