So....got my car back.

[knucklehead0202]

So I've been talking shit for a while about all the crap I was going to put on the boat. Well it's all on now and....the result is, uh, interesting?

Here's the loadout: Edelbrock Performer 5.0 heads(CARB legal for the record). Typhoon (edelbrock knock-off) intake manifold upper and lower(reversible!). 1.7 rockers. 65mm lightning TB and egr spacer. C&L 73mm MAF(24lb sampling tube) FMS 24lb injectors(flowed), new IAT sensor, new ect sensor, new plugs, etc.

Findings:

The initial tune had a ton of advance which caused severe pinging(smaller chambers and shitty gas didn't help). Backed timing off a bit. Put in octane boost and refilled with premium. No more ping.

Car is a TURD down low. 3.08 gears exacerbate this situation but it is a shit getting off the line.

Once it starts pulling, the tranny decides it's time to shift. TV is normal but where this thing now makes power is where stock AOD says "upshift"!

Need to investigate possible TPS issue but also think it's way too much fuel with the 24lb injectors. Considering throwing 19lbers in there with the same sampling tube to lean it out a bit and see if that helps.

Manually shifting, wind up 1st a bit then lay into it, goddamn cars goes almost 60mph in 1st! Pulls like a fucking freight train between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle. WOT=bogging and unhappy feeling. WTF? Maybe too much fuel, see above.

So what say the panther gods. Right now, i'm sure I need to replace the timing set as it's probably original and might be fucking with things a bit, need to check TPS again, haven't ACTUALLY put a timing light on it, just backed it off a hair by eyeball. Overall though, seems like something is WRONG. Car runs fine, even with the AC on but I feel like the trans is really holding a lot of shit back, especially since I have lame gears and a stock converter. 3.73s and a stall would wake shit up, but it just doesn't hold the gears long enough to make use of the powerband. Would a shift-kit solve this or do I need to go full-retard and get a valve body? The more I look at this the more I wish i'd just held out and did the whole goddamn drivetrain at once! The shop is now pushing me on a coyote swap. Rich for my blood but by the time this mess is solved, i'd probably be happier.

[Tiggie]

Sorry to hear it's not running as well as it could. Always sucks to spend money and not get the return you're looking for. You've got good heads to grow on now though.

I don't claim to have answers for you but just so we have all the info: you have a factory mass air car? Stock cam? What computer are you running?

[knucklehead0202]

Yep, factory MAF car, not sure what computer it is, but I can tell you it's pretty pissed off right now, lol. I might throw 19lb injectors in it with the same sampling tube in the maf to see if it leans out and runs a little better. Still need to upgrade ignition too, as the Crane HI-6 I bought for it didn't bloody work. May get MSD on the next go-round. Yes, i'm running the stock cam with 1.7 rockers for a little extra lift. I think most of the difference i'm seeing is almost strictly just the airflow improvements in the intake tract, although it completely turned the powerband on it's head.

This car used to have gobs of low-end torque and fell on it's face above about 3000 rpm. Now it doesn't really even pull 'til then, and the dumbass trans prefers to upshift right as we're getting into the pull zone. If I can get it to quit bogging at WOT that should help, and i'm really thinking it's just too much fuel. 24lb injectors are way more than this turd needs so i'm gonna snag some 19lbers and we'll see what it does.

[pantera77]

Wait, your running a stock lopo cam and computer, but 24# injectors and aftermarket heads/intake?

Why?

This combo will never run right.

[DerekTheGreat]

I thought you were going to swap the cam out?

I'm no expert but I'm betting that's part of the issue as that is matched to the stock garbage heads & intake.

[pivichot]

Might want to change the AOD governor for one of a mustang. Will need to remove tailshaft housing.

[knucklehead0202]

yes, stock lopo cam with 1.7 rockers. Going to drop back to 19lb injectors. I don't expect it to be a world beater but I also didn't expect it to run like total dogshit. Only reason I used the 24's is because they're matched to the MAF, since the stock maf is like half the size of my new throttle body. The maf is a c&l that has interchangeable sampling tubes, basically to trick the computer into thinking everything is normal. Thinking if I run 19lb injectors with the 24# sampling tube it should lean out a bit and not be so boggy. Above about 2500rpm it just pulls and pulls, but if you go WOT it bogs too. So weird but I think it's just loading up. With the size of the valves on these heads, I don't think i'd clear much of a cam without cutting valve reliefs in the pistons. Rather wait for a real engine to go to that much trouble. Just thought i'd liven this one up a bit with the parts I already had.

[sly]

Considering the stock lopo injectors are 14#... 19# would probably fit a larger maf pretty good.

[pantera77]

Just thought i'd liven this one up a bit with the parts I already had.

But none of these parts match.

We'll start at the drivetrain.

3.08's are way to low for this combo, 3.55's or higher

IIRC the stock converter stalls at 1600 or so, which on a stock lopo is fine, but awful for what your going for

Same thing for the shift governor, lopo one is ~4k, you need a HO one (also can be found on 92 bastard block cars). You can also get the higher aftermarket ones, which if you decide to throw a half decent cam in there may be the way to go. This is half the reason your shifts are so awful assuming your TV pressure is set right.

Stock AOD's are awful, throw a shift kit in at minimum.

Toss that lopo cam in the trash and at least swap a HO one in if not an entry level OTS cam. The lopo cam has no place in a performance build, it makes absolutely no power up top and has that stupid firing order.

Toss the stock computer and stick a HO mass air one in, since you have that weird oddball mass air cali car it should be a direct swap.

[gadget73]

The ECM dictates the injector size. The stock one wants 14#, so you must run 14# unless you tune it.

The ECM also is programmed for a specific MAF transfer curve. You have to run the one it wants, or one with a similar transfer function or its not going to be happy with itself.

Really what you need is a tuner, though I suspect you're going to also need one of the Mustang MAF ECM's.

Also, quite honestly that cam sucks, but it should suck a lot less with the fuel curve dialed in.

Same with the AOD, it needs a shift kit or sumthin. They're very "meh" in stock form. A decent valve body will get your shift points where they belong even with the stock governator.

[knucklehead0202]

Agreed completely, but kinda blew my proverbial wad getting all this shit done, so it'll be a little while before I can do any other major surgery. I know the computer is a turd but I really don't expect an HO cam would clear my large valves, so that's out for now. I definitely need a shift kit and may be able to slide that one in, which would be huge. Ideally i'd put 3.73's and a mild stall in it, but again, not real soon.

If I can fool this thing into running worth a shit for a while I can live with that. Definitely plan to lean it out a bit and re-check everything, including TPS and timing, to see if I can improve it's manners a bit. I know this is far from an ideal combo but i'm kind of hamstrung by budget and keeping the old lady happy so I've gotta do what I gotta do. Once the kids are back in school it's not as critical and maybe I can get a little deeper into this sucker. For now, i'll just have to muddle through and fuck with it until it kinda works gooder