Timing Chain and Oil Pan Gasket

[L1011tristar17]

My car has been leaking oil from the pan gasket ever since I took it to a shop that changed the water pump. They lost four of the pan bolts and didn't seat the gasket in correctly. You can actually see it sticking out from the pan. Surprisingly, the leak is very slow. I also would like to replace the timing chain. I haven't confirmed that the chain has too much slop, but the car is starting to drive like a 245k mile car. The idle is a bit rough and it hesitates on acceleration. It also bucks and surges when cruising at highway speeds. So far I've replaced all ignition components as well as the fuel filter and temperature sensors.

I figured that I could get two birds stoned at once and change the pan gasket while doing the timing chain. I came up with a shopping list for parts I found on Rockauto. Here's what I have so far.

FAN CLUTCH: FOUR SEASONS 36954
WATER PUMP: AIRTEX AW4052 (comes with a gasket)
TIMING SET: CLOYES 91138 (double roller, of course!)
TIMING COVER GASKET: FELPRO TCS45450
OIL PAN GASKET: FELPRO OS34508R
HARMONIC BALANCER: DORMAN 594024

The total bill for these parts (before shipping) is around $160. Now before I order anything, I have a couple questions:

1. Do I need a thermal or non-thermal fan clutch?
2. I saw four different Cloyes double roller timing sets listed for my car. Which should I get?
3. How do I replace the front crank seal? The timing cover gasket set looks like it comes with one.
4. How essential is it to replace the harmonic balancer? I haven't checked the one on my car, but that part alone is $40 and I would prefer not to buy it if I don't need it. Even if the one on my car looks OK, should I order a new one?

Thanks everyone!

[gadget73]

Why were they messing with pan bolts to do the water pump? Unless one of the pump bolts broke and the cover had to come off to fix it, there is no reason to do any of that. Also, if they had the cover off, the chain should have been checked and possibly changed at that time.


You want a thermal clutch. They will disengage when the engine cools off rather than just being entirely RPM dependant.

which sets are you looking at speifically? The 91138 has multiple keys to advance or retard cam timing. No need for this with a stock motor. I'd probably look at the Cloyes C3057K for a little less coin.


The front crank seal you can knock out with a punch or a large socket if you've got the timing cover off. Just lay it on something to support the cover and drive it out from the back side. There is a fancy seal puller tool to do this with the cover installed, but its quicker and easier to just knock it out from the back side.

If its the original balancer, I'd replace it. The rubber tends to crack and push out after a while and that will cause problems. I've seen broken crankshafts from balancers coming apart before.

[Brown_Muscle]

1: Thermal clutch is stock replacement
2: I can only tell you what i did, i got the cheapest cloyes double roller they had (it was on closeout) Others may have a better idea
3:crank seal is in the timing cover, so once you get that off you can drive the old one out, either with a specialty tool (seal and bearing driver works) or the correct size socket (if you have a massive one that works too). But you can rent the drivers for free from most autoparts stores
4: If you plan to keep the car, it's recommended you do it, especially at such high milage, you have to take it off to get the timing cover off anyway.

[LithiumCobalt]

The Cloyes C3057X is made from a metal alloy (probably in China) and only carries a one year warranty. The 91138 is all steel, made in the USA with a lifetime warranty. For only a couple of bucks more, I went with the 91138 for my car. The front seal isn't too hard. I used a large screwdriver and hammer to drive mine out. Getting the new one in was a bit fun. You have to get them started perfectly square and gradually drive in evenly or it gets all jabber walked and cocked in the hole. One piece of advice. Keep track of which water pump bolt goes in which hole. I simply made "related piles" when I took mine apart and found that all of the bolts are different lengths. It took me about a half hour to reconstruct where they all went.

[miamibob]

For the bolts, some folks simply make a cardboard cut out to look like the "real thing" and push the bolts through the cardboard in the appropriate places in order to keep track.

[L1011tristar17]

Parts all came in a few days ago! I plan on tackling this project around Thanksgiving.

[L1011tristar17]

Does the rubber one-piece oil pan gasket need RTV? I know to put RTV where it meets the timing cover gasket, but is there anywhere else? And should I put RTV on the mating surfaces of the timing cover?

[pantera77]

I always put a thin bead on each side. Some say it's a waste, but I've never ever had one leak.

[gadget73]

I always put those on dry. Destructions in the box say to if I remember right. I use very little sealer in general though. Be absoutely sure your mating surfaces are clean, flat, and dry though or it probably will not work out well.

[sly]

I put a dab here and there to hold rubber in place (outside of the bolt holes). Cork gets a bead all around as does paper.

[gadget73]

The last rubber pan gasket I bought came with these cool plastic things that would retain the gasket while you stuffed the oil pan back into position. They screw into the block at the corners and you use that to align the pan and gasket without having to worry about it moving out of position.

[sly]

nice.

[L1011tristar17]

The gasket I bought has those four plastic dowels, which will come in handy. I'm replacing the gasket without removing the engine (for several reasons) and since the timing cover will be off, I'll have more access anyways. From what I've read, I just have to snake the gasket around the oil pan pickup(s) (two pickups, right?). I'll be very careful getting old gasket material off without it falling into the pan. But just to be sure, I was planning on spraying some liquid (solvent, oil, etc.) into the pan to flush any debris out through the open drain plug holes. I have a turkey baster I can use since it is such a confined space. Would this work?

[pantera77]

Oh were talking about the oil pan gasket? I thought we were still on the timing cover gasket. For the 1 piece rubber oil pan gasket I just do 2 dabs were the timing cover meets the block and 2 dabs on the the rear main cap. Put the timing cover back on first though, it will probably make it easier.

[L1011tristar17]

Oh were talking about the oil pan gasket? I thought we were still on the timing cover gasket. For the 1 piece rubber oil pan gasket I just do 2 dabs were the timing cover meets the block and 2 dabs on the the rear main cap. Put the timing cover back on first though, it will probably make it easier.

My mistake! I should have been more clear. I was asking about both the timing cover and oil pan gaskets. I knew that the permadry gaskets don't require RTV, but I wasn't sure if it would benefit any to add RTV anyways. Especially since I don't want to do the same job twice!