coolant leak at water pump, newbie questions

[jpc]

My '85 MGMCP loses coolant.

There's no temp gauge, but the radiator temp feels normal after driving.

Tonight I started it cold and idled it up to temp. The cabin heat came on after about 3 minutes. The top radiator hose stayed cold for about 5 minutes, then warmed up rapidly. So I think the thermostat opened normally. Everything seems normal so far. TOO normal. There's no leak after ten minutes of idling.

Then I revved the engine and bingo, a trickle of water. OK. Stopped the motor and took a look. The lower half of the seal around the water pump is wet. I didn't see water at the t-stat seal or either hose at the t-stat. If the leak was from the t-stat area, there'd be liquid at the top half of the water pump seal also, wouldn't there be?

<begin stupid newbie questions>

The car needs a new water pump and gasket, right?

What else would you do at the same time? I'm thinking hoses, t-stat and t-stat gasket? And the alternator belt is made entirely of cracks, omg.

The shop manual devotes less than half a page to water pump replacement. What's the best guide for a newbie? My coworker said get a Chilton's. What do you all use?

How do you decide when to try a repair yourself and when to take it to a mechanic? On the one hand, I know an honest, friendly, professional shop. They fix every problem I've ever brought them. Good rates too. On the other hand I am a wannabe mechanic. I want to do more in life than change the oil.

[79lincolnlover]

suggestions

The car needs a new water pump and gasket, right?

I'm thinking hoses, t-stat and t-stat gasket? And the alternator belt is made entirely of cracks, omg.

What's the best guide for a newbie? My coworker said get a Chilton's. What do you all use?

How do you decide when to try a repair yourself and when to take it to a mechanic?

1. Replace all the parts you listed
2. Buy a Chilton's or Haynes manual
3. If the car is your DD and you don't have time/experience to repair it, take it to the shop.

[pantera77]

Water pump isn't hard too do on these (well unless a bolt breaks off). Probably wouldn't be a bad time for belts (and clamps), hoses thermostat and gasket.

[85crownHPP]

yah - being in the rust belt Id be especially worried about bolts breaking. Haynes/Chilton manuals don't always give you detailed instructions but they help. It's not a terrible job as long as you can remember how everything goes back

[johnunit]

Chilton/haynes are ok, but if you want to get serious pick up a Ford repair manual, Ford published, for a year similar to yours. You probably want 85 or earlier so they have CFI info. You can find oodles of them on ebay.

[ford man]

Just keep track of all the bolts because they're different sizes. You can keep all the bolts loose in the old pump when you take it off and transfer them to the new pump one by one.

I recommend cutting a piece of cardboard for your radiator to keep it protected. I would also recommend doing the timing chain and timing cover gaskets but that certainly is getting more involved.

Check out Youtube for some videos too cause watching is sometimes better than reading.

[jpc]

Don't timing chains last almost forever?

You got a point about a new timing gasket.

[1987cp]

Haynes manuals are always worth having around, and they're still pretty readily available. I have Haynes manuals for every type of car my immediate family has owned in the past several years. I did buy a vehicle-specific Chilton's manual also, and it's thicker than the Haynes, but I'd be hard pressed to say how and if it's better. That said, replacing a water pump is really pretty straightforward since there's no nonsense like threaded-on fan clutches,

Always keep Ultra black RTV around. I actually use it without gaskets on my water pumps and thermostat housings. There are those who say it's a bad idea, but it works well for me. Better still is supposed to be a Permatex product called "Right Stuff", supposed to set up pretty hard and be more impermeable to chemicals than the Ultra Black, comes especially recommended for making your own intake manifold end seals.

Harbor Freight is your friend if you want to buy things like torque wrenches but can't justify Craftyman or Snap-On prices. But for sockets I often hit up AutoZone or even Lowes since for me they're a lot closer and have a bit better selection (I once ended up bicycling to Lowes for a 12pt/12mm 1/2 drive socket when some driveshaft bolts were being particularly stubborn).

Don't overlook the AutoZone free tool rental program if you need tools you don't think you'll need again. I think Advance and others have similar programs these days.


And, since you've discovered GMN, don't hesitate to post random stupid questions here if you get stuck. Plenty of useful info in the forum stickies too, and sometimes a search can turn up useful stuff from some old thread or other.

[ford man]

Don't timing chains last almost forever?

You got a point about a new timing gasket.

Not on a '85! It's the weak link of the engine... it's a single roller and the camshaft sprocket is made of plastic!

Here is a video I made when I replaced my timing chain about a month ago...

How many miles does your car have?




Not a small job but worth it if you love your car.

[ford man]

I use Ultra black for intake manifold end seals and on the oil pan portion of the timing cover. It's very oil resistant. The Right Stuff is supposed to be the best; I've heard that too. You only have to wait like 30 minutes for it to dry or something. I also like Super 300 form a gasket brush able liquid and Hi Tach brush able liquid. They stay workable for a long time. I clean the surfaces brush a little Hi Tach, stick the gasket on, brush a little more on the other side then bolt it up.

[jpc]

The Colony Park is just coming up to 56,000 original miles. Drives, rides, handles like new. How long does that plastic sprocket last? The factory maintenance schedule doesn't say a word about timing chain replacement on the 302, but it's not exactly the gospel I guess. Thanks

[ford man]

The Colony Park is just coming up to 56,000 original miles. Drives, rides, handles like new. How long does that plastic sprocket last? The factory maintenance schedule doesn't say a word about timing chain replacement on the 302, but it's not exactly the gospel I guess. Thanks

I replaced mine at 62,000 miles and it was loosey goosey. I'm sure it could last well over 100,000 miles but the plastic gear starts breaking up and clogging the oil pickup leading to low oil pressure and reducing the useful life of the engine. '86 and up engines come with a steel double roller timing chain.

[1987cp]

My '87 plastic timing set looked OK when I pulled it off at over 130k. Though that was on an roller motor, so maybe the flat cams put more load on the timing set than the factory lowpo roller? I'm afraid I didn't pay any attention to how the one off my '79 engine looked because I was stripping it to the block in a hurry and didn't care.

[BerniniCaCO3]

My first real repair on my car, was my water pump. Darn city labor rates: every shop gave me a quote of $700!
I had chilton, a dinky tool kit, and it took me an afternoon and the better part of the next day. I didn't know what I was doing, and was nervous at every step.
I can do it much faster now.
But yeah, it worked out fine. Little annoyances were getting the fan off, those little bolts are awkward; and feeling for where the bolt to loosen the tensioner for the passenger side drivebelt was. I have an 86-91 style though, dunno if accessories were mounted differently.

The timing chain might double your time and triple your cursing, being your first time around.
The cover itself is gravy (easy), make sure you get the bolts going up from the oil pan too. You WILL need an impact gun and a pulley puller to get the harmonic balancer off. I want to say that it was 15/16" socket I used? If you've got the cash, some folks suggested replacing the harmonic balancer ($30-50) because the rubber ring between the inner portion and the outer weight deteriorates with age, and they can, though rarely, separate.
Maybe you can borrow a portable compressor and gun from a friend.
I want to say I just took a lady's finger style prybar and gently worked around the timing gears to get them free, but other folks here might have a better idea. I've only done it once, myself!
Actually, now that I think about it, the job's not so bad. And if it's original plastic, at 25 years of being soaked in hot oil, it's due for replacement. But you will need to borrow that pulley puller from autozone, and see where you can get an impact gun.
A breaker bar doesn't work, because you'll just turn the engine over-- unless it's manual and you can leave it in fourth gear Was a manual even offered, maybe in '85...?

[1987cp]

A/C stuff seems to have been pretty much the same starting in '81, possibly '80 (I've not worked on an '80, only an '81 and a '79, and the '79 was a bit different).