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    stalling out @stop lights when fan turns on!

    Hey!
    Last week I had no particular issue here. Some things weren't hooked up... but engine ran great, idles in drive @ stop lights @500rpm. A/C didn't make a difference.

    Early this week I had a lot of belt squeal. Yes, from wet weather, but worse than that could explain. Investigating, I found both belts loose. Well, they were brand new; probably stretched. So I retensioned both belts. I may have over done it; I didn't think so.

    Two days ago I finished hooking up my electric fan wholly and completely, but didn't set the thermostat yet, so by and large I don't think it ever kicked on. My short highway commute guaranteed that I never got to a temperature that it would, and I had it set too high.

    So today, I'm actually stuck in traffic, temperature is climbing, and I decide to turn on the a/c, because I know with the trigger wire it will also turn on the fan. Car shudders, rpms dip to 300, rev desperately to 600 something for a moment before the engine stalls right out.
    Oh dear.

    When I got home this evening, I did some experimenting. Since the car was good and warm, and I had daylight for once, getting home before 9pm, I decided to set the thermostat finally.
    Turned it down, and down, and then the fan kicked on @ whatever temperature the car was at. At that moment, car starts to stall out, barely recovers. Uh-oh.
    I'm having dinner with some friends tonight, so I drove there (here) 30 minutes ago. Waiting at the exit from the beltway, the car's temperature again climbs up enough to trigger the fan. Car stalls out this time. And again. Shit. Hold the brake pedal, hold the gas pedal to keep it at 1000 rpm, manage to keep it running to get off the exit and turn into my friend's driveway.


    OK, so obviously the fan does not draw off the engine, but, it does draw off the alternator, and when an extra 30 amps are called for the alternator's regulator will increase the load by engaging more coils.
    I've got two possibilities.
    Could overly tight belt tension, which I only retightened 2-3 days ago, add enough load that, when fairly weak at idle, the engine can end up just dying when any further load is added (like the alternator putting out more amperage, or the a/c)?
    Or is a 500rpm idle really too low, and --I confess I have NOT done this, though someone wrote up how to last week for me in another post-- I really need to replace the IAC and/or calibrate it so that my idle speed is more like 700rpm maybe?

    Let me know, and soon! This is not an ignorable driveability issue, stalling out every single time my car gets hot enough to trigger the fan while idling...

    #2
    500 rpm is too low. 300 is way too low. You have something wrong, either the IAC is not working or your tach is lying but it should not drop under about 600 rpm under any circumstances.

    whats the voltage drop to when the fan kicks on? If its a stock alternator, I'd expect to see under 12v with the fan on, and that can be enough to kill the motor. The stock alternator is barely sufficient anyway, add 30 amps of draw and its just a disaster in the making. You really need at least a 130 to run a fan.

    Also, this sort of crap is why I removed the electric fan from my car. I didn't have stalling issues but I got tired of the electrical surges and all that mess that went with the fan kicking on and off. Clutch fans do not do this.
    86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
    5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

    91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

    1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

    Originally posted by phayzer5
    I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

    Comment


      #3
      tach goes to 8000 (ridiculous, I know, but smaller tachs aren't made...) and is only 2" diameter-- so each 100rpm is a tiny notch.
      It's possible it's close to 600 rpm, but not a bit higher, ever, at hot idle. When in park it might go to 1000rpm.

      I did get an upgraded 130 amp alternator. PA performance? I'd have to check. Just *in case* it might have a bad regulator, you're right, it would be a good idea to see how badly voltage drops when the fan kicks on.

      Comment


        #4
        I haven't seen 300rpm in a while, which is good. Maybe the iac programmed itself over experience?
        Admittedly, if I ever saw 300rpm. Might have been 400. Again, 100rpm notches are awfully fine and hard to read.

        Comment


          #5
          my Mark was idling around ~500 loaded (warm, AC, Drive, brakes). It would like to stall sometimes when it would drop to less than that. It now idles around 700 like it should. Much happier car.

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

          Originally posted by gadget73
          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

          Originally posted by dmccaig
          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

          Comment


            #6
            Hah, yes, I just hadn't fully loaded it until today. The fan/alternator is what put it over the edge. Before now, that I have the fan, 500 rpm idle was just fine.
            I think when I tested my fan a day or two ago and turned on the a/c to see that the fan turned on, it was cold and in park, so it didn't hesitate in the least.

            How'd you fix yours?
            The old IAC is for a lopo, however, the HO IAC will not fit (wiring harness plunges straight into throttle cables).
            ...in case a lopo IAC on an HO engine is an issue.
            It is of course an HO computer and HO throttle. It's a lopo throttle position sensor.

            Mostly, it's doing alright. Classic surging idle is not there at all, which is why I wasn't looking at the IAC.
            But I can certainly get a new one; just $50 for napa's better eichlin brand.

            And I can go through the proper calibration procedure.

            Is low idle speed a symptom of a 20yr old clogged IAC? (I did wash it out with brake cleaner, so it's not caked with crud, nor was it to begin with; but there is some blackened oil buildup).

            Comment


              #7
              I followed the idle set procedure for the 5.0 (takes about half an hour if it's already close - mine took about 45 minutes because the throttle stop was backed all the way out) and then followed John's suggestion of setting the throttle plate stop so that the TPS is set to 0.9V (actually set at 0.93V on mine). dunno where that procedure is posted though... it's not in a sticky.

              as far as the IAC and TPS... that shouldn't matter... if the IAC moves... it should be ok. Make sure the throttle body is clean as well and that the "black" behind the throttle plate is gone. carb/throttle body cleaner is your friend.

              Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
              rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

              Originally posted by gadget73
              ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

              Originally posted by dmccaig
              Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks, I'll go ahead with the procedure when I have time monday. When I'd asked earlier, I decided to not bother because it seemed to be running alright @500rpm, and stopped dipping to 400 for whatever reason; but dying every time the fan kicks on is a bit of a problem! And I *actually* need to fix it this time
                Will post again with the results, i.e., if it starts to idle properly @700rpm, or, if the procedure doesn't seem to work....

                Btw, is the idle reset thrown off every time you disconnect the battery? Will I need to go through the 30 minute procedure every time I have to unplug the battery for other electrical work?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BerniniCaCO3 View Post
                  Btw, is the idle reset thrown off every time you disconnect the battery? Will I need to go through the 30 minute procedure every time I have to unplug the battery for other electrical work?
                  no. The idle learn is for people who don't have the time to wait. If you undo the battery, the computer will control the engine as it did from the factory. If everything is set properly, and all passages are clean, the engine will idle just fine.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    how long IS the wait?
                    I think I might just let the engine run.
                    BUT I'm going to verify .9V on the throttle position sensor, and maybe just spend the $50 for a new IAC. I cleaned mine as best I could, but it's 20 years old and still dirty (unless I can safely unscrew the back piece and take it apart to clean?), so who knows.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      FWIW, you can split the IAC into two pieces with the two phillips head screws. It separates into the solenoid and the valve.


                      I've never waited more than a few minutes after unhooking the battery before hooking it up again and starting the car and going. The only time it gets to idle is when I'm adjusting the clock after unhooking the battery and losing my settings.
                      sigpic


                      - 1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria P72 - the street boat - 5.0 liter EFI - Ported HO intake/TB, 90 TC shroud/overflow, Aero airbox/zip tube, Cobra camshaft, 19lb injectors, dual exhaust w/ Magnaflows, Cat/Smog & AC delete, 3G alternator, MOOG chassis parts & KYB cop shocks, 215/70r/15s on 95-97 Merc rims

                      - 2007 Ford Escape XLT - soccer mom lifted station wagon - 3.0 Duratec, auto, rear converter delete w/ Magnaflow dual exhaust

                      - 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Edition - Daily driver - 4.6 2 valve Mod motor, 4R75E, 2.73s. Bone stock

                      Comment


                        #12
                        according to what I've read... it takes 4 to 8 temp cycles to properly relearn everything depending on what specific computer it is. Some take longer. I'm not sure which ones are which though. Setting the idle on the limp home mode (spout out) will always guarantee that the car will run to a point as long as the major electrics and mechanical stuff work.

                        Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                        rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                        Originally posted by gadget73
                        ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                        Originally posted by dmccaig
                        Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          If everything is set right, you shouldn't need to relearn the idle. When I did my explorer, I just backed out screw until it didn't contact the blade. Then I turned the screw in just a tad so it held the throttle plate open just a little off fully closed. Set the TPS voltage to .9V. Start it up. Bingo bango bongo. Done.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            wait-- isn't turning the screw HOW I set the TPS voltage? By opening the throttle plate until a voltmeter hanging off the TPS hot reads .9V? Or is there something else?
                            Gonna do this tomorrow immediately after work, at work, because I can't afford to get stuck in the least bit of traffic with my options now being to overheat w/o a fan, or stall out with the fan...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              nope... that's it.

                              Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                              rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                              Originally posted by gadget73
                              ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                              Originally posted by dmccaig
                              Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                              Comment

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