Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The dreaded KNOCK

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 4
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 template Next
    #1

    The dreaded KNOCK

    Hi Again,
    Sorry to only post when in need. I am in dire need now.
    On my way to work when I exited the freeway I heard a knock, put in neutral and rev it up, the knock get louder. This was a 17 mile trip. I drove another 1-2 miles to work. When I parked and turned the car off I was able to take off the radiator cap by hand with no back splash. The antifreeze was full and the oil level was full. At all startups the knock is still there. This was a used 5.0 motor that I got 4 years of usage from.

    1. Do you think maybe the oil pump had went out?

    2. I am going to have the motor replaced, should I go with a 351W? If so which vehicle should I get one from?
    3. I would like to get a deep sump ( more capacity oil pan) any suggestions on what oil pan will work?
    4. What should I have the mechanic do to a used engine before putting it in the car? What would be a higher performance oil pump to go with?
    5. On this last oil change I used 20-50W Castrol for the first time, all other oil changes were 10-30W. Ocassionally synthetic.
    6.Did the 20-50 weight cause an issue? While the new motor is put in I hope to have the 3.55L rear put in.

    Any comments and advice?

    Thanks Mike
    90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
    90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
    91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
    70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original
    Tags: None
    #2
    Forgot to mention that a complete 1969 351W 4V motor is available as well as a complete 1972 351CJ 4V. Both would need a basic rebuild. What would I have to do to put either of them in the 1991 Grand Marquis and keep the stock 1991 AOD transmission?

    What are the pros and cons using the 351W vs the 351CJ vs a more modern 351W?
    90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
    90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
    91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
    70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

    Comment

      #3
      I'd go with a 351W if you can. You need a Panther 351w oil pan, or an aftermarket one for a 351W in a fox body.


      not sure what a 72 351CJ actually had, but I'd bet the 1969 351w is not as it was from the factory. If it is, you need to get hardened valve seats which is already the cost of decent GT40 heads which will make more power.

      85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
      160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
      waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

      06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

      Comment

        #4
        I thought the 351W blocks in '69--'71 were supposed to be the strongest. Perhaps I'm a few years off.



        Packman

        Comment

          #5
          I put 20W50 in a knocking 351 once. Did seem to quiet things down a *little*, and the check-engine light quit flashing at me all the time from low oil pressure. Supposedly most engines can soldier on just fine with a knock, it just sounds really annoying. That particular 351 was pretty far gone, though - I even rented a ridge reamer to get the pistons out!

          Most people seem to agree that there's little need for a fancy oil pump, especially as high-volume pumps are said to suck a stock pan dry at high RPM. If you do want a fancy pan, I noticed recently that Summit has affordable options sold under the Proform brand. Though, if you want to spend extra $$$ on that sort of thing, I figure you'd be better off spending the money elsewhere (TrickFlow heads, custom cam, big intake, all the usual items).

          If rebuilding a pre-'94 351W, I'd consider budgeting for linkbar lifters to put in a roller camshaft, but some people like flat cams. Possibly some classic-Mustang guys would have more info on what the engines actually are? I know the "Boss 351" was a 351C, but that's about it. One good thing about a '69 351W is that it would (I think) have actually had "351 heads", which would be (I think) comparable to a '90s GT40 iron head.

          Only concerns for the transmission, unless you're trying to put in a 351M or similar, are TV cable/rod provisions, plus of course trying to match the WOT shift points with the completed engine's usable RPM range. Will want to check the engine's original flexplate (if from an auto car) for the correct tooth count and converter bolt pattern, since if it had a "small bellhousing" (case-fill?) C4, an AOD converter won't bolt up. You'll of course need something like the BBK 1511 exhaust manifolds unless running actual headers, and up front you'll make minor tweaks to your accessory mount provisions.
          Last edited by 1987cp; 09-13-2011, 03:26 PM.
          2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by stinkydogfilms View Post
            Forgot to mention that a complete 1969 351W 4V motor is available as well as a complete 1972 351CJ 4V. Both would need a basic rebuild. What would I have to do to put either of them in the 1991 Grand Marquis and keep the stock 1991 AOD transmission?

            What are the pros and cons using the 351W vs the 351CJ vs a more modern 351W?


            As far as I know, the bellhousing pattern is the same on all small block Fords excluding older windsors (221, 260 etc). The same trans would work behind the 69 motor (if it's a windsor and not cleveland), the CJ motor, or a 5.0 from grannies Town Car.
            Last edited by 1990LTD; 09-13-2011, 03:30 PM.
            sigpic


            - 1990 Ford LTD Crown Victoria P72 - the street boat - 5.0 liter EFI - Ported HO intake/TB, 90 TC shroud/overflow, Aero airbox/zip tube, Cobra camshaft, 19lb injectors, dual exhaust w/ Magnaflows, Cat/Smog & AC delete, 3G alternator, MOOG chassis parts & KYB cop shocks, 215/70r/15s on 95-97 Merc rims

            - 2007 Ford Escape XLT - soccer mom lifted station wagon - 3.0 Duratec, auto, rear converter delete w/ Magnaflow dual exhaust

            - 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate Edition - Daily driver - 4.6 2 valve Mod motor, 4R75E, 2.73s. Bone stock

            Comment

              #7
              Mechanic said that the 351W would need a new computer or at least one not from a 302. I just replaced the starter 2 weeks ago. Will the 351W use the same starter? Are the 351W and the 302 starters the same?

              I thank you again.
              Mike
              90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
              90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
              91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
              70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

              Comment

                #8
                Will there be any problems with the PS and AC mounting brackets being used on the 351W?

                Will there be a hood clearance problem going with a 351W?

                This will be in a 1991 grand Marquis
                90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
                90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
                91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
                70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

                Comment

                  #9
                  hood clearance depends on the intake, but a mild dual plane will fit.


                  AC mounting brackets are 351 specific. I'm not sure if you could make older 351 stuff work with panther stuff as far as mixing and matching accessory brackets, but Scottmang has mentioned a few times that the 351 AC brackets are hard to come by.

                  85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                  160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                  waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                  06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I see a lot of expensive problems trying to put a 351W where a 5.O LOPO was. Even if you have a CVPI police car with a 351W available for all the parts, bracket and wiring you'll need, you still need a computer.

                    Plus what intake do you plan to use?, I expect you intend to keep the fuel injection. The 5.O intake won't bolt on a 351W, the CVPI doesn't use fuel injection so that intake can't be used. The only thing to do is an after market intake or a Lightnin truck intake.

                    the 72 351CJ is a Cleveland, which comes with a bigger pile of problems to be solved. As no CV, GM or TC ever came
                    with a 351 Cleveland. Also, I can't think of a single computer controlled Ford that ever had a 351 Cleveland to rob a computer from.

                    Assuming you want to do this on a budget, look for a good used 5.O H.O. or Explorer motor. This is the only way to go where everything will bolt up and comes with the smallest problems to solve. Anything else is going to turn into an expensive headache.

                    Been there, done that and yes I did get the T-shirt!!

                    Comment

                      #11
                      it is going to be a complete used motor. Swap out swap in.
                      So would I have better torque and horsepower with an EXPLORER 302 verses a 351W?
                      Is there a big difference between the Mustang HO and the EXPLORER 302? Yes we will keep the fuel injection.

                      Thank you for the input. It makes it easier to plan.
                      Mechanic said the computer would run $250.00 for the 351W computer. Probably would be a used one. Will the HO or Explores 5.0 need a different computer?
                      What wiring would be different on the 351W motor? Any different wiring with the HO or Explorer motor?

                      Looks like I will be leaning on the HO or EXPLORER 5.0.
                      Any problems using the LOPO AOD with either the HO or EXPLORER 5.0?
                      Should I try to pick up an HO AOD or can I add the after market goodies such as the governor and valve body to the LOPO AOD? LOPO trans was rebuilt 2 years ago.

                      What kind of junkyard price for a HO or EXPLORER 5.0 motor? Probably looking at $800-1000 for the labor to install.
                      Thank you again,
                      Mike
                      90 Colony Park LS with GT 40 heads and intake. HO cam, 65 MM TB, 67 MM EGR spacer. Has a 75 MM Pro Flow mass air sensor. Borla XS mufflers. 3L55. Shift kit, 2000 stall Tq convertor...Bilstein shocks, front and rear sway bars.
                      90 Colony Park LS 64,000 miles all original. 3L55 tow package....front and rear sway bars.
                      91 Grand Marquis GS....HO motor..Bilstein shocks poly bushings and police swaybars. This one handles the best.
                      70 Torino Squire with M code 351 Cleveland 3.00 has Magnaflow mufflers. Hidden headlights and power windows. All original

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mcninetyone View Post
                        I see a lot of expensive problems trying to put a 351W where a 5.O LOPO was. Even if you have a CVPI police car with a 351W available for all the parts, bracket and wiring you'll need, you still need a computer.

                        Plus what intake do you plan to use?, I expect you intend to keep the fuel injection. The 5.O intake won't bolt on a 351W, the CVPI doesn't use fuel injection so that intake can't be used. The only thing to do is an after market intake or a Lightnin truck intake.

                        the 72 351CJ is a Cleveland, which comes with a bigger pile of problems to be solved. As no CV, GM or TC ever came
                        with a 351 Cleveland. Also, I can't think of a single computer controlled Ford that ever had a 351 Cleveland to rob a computer from.

                        Assuming you want to do this on a budget, look for a good used 5.O H.O. or Explorer motor. This is the only way to go where everything will bolt up and comes with the smallest problems to solve. Anything else is going to turn into an expensive headache.

                        Been there, done that and yes I did get the T-shirt!!
                        No big deal making an EEC-IV work on a cleveland. That's what tuners are for. And I've seen intake adapters to run windsor intakes on clevelands.

                        EFI 351W is easy, the only bracket that is different than the 302 is the upper AC bracket...Plenty of EFI intakes available for the 351W, EFI from the 302 will work with tuning...
                        Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

                        Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by stinkydogfilms View Post
                          it is going to be a complete used motor. Swap out swap in.
                          So would I have better torque and horsepower with an EXPLORER 302 verses a 351W?
                          Is there a big difference between the Mustang HO and the EXPLORER 302? Yes we will keep the fuel injection.

                          Thank you for the input. It makes it easier to plan.
                          Mechanic said the computer would run $250.00 for the 351W computer. Probably would be a used one. Will the HO or Explores 5.0 need a different computer?
                          What wiring would be different on the 351W motor? Any different wiring with the HO or Explorer motor?

                          Looks like I will be leaning on the HO or EXPLORER 5.0.
                          Any problems using the LOPO AOD with either the HO or EXPLORER 5.0?
                          Should I try to pick up an HO AOD or can I add the after market goodies such as the governor and valve body to the LOPO AOD? LOPO trans was rebuilt 2 years ago.

                          What kind of junkyard price for a HO or EXPLORER 5.0 motor? Probably looking at $800-1000 for the labor to install.
                          Thank you again,
                          Mike
                          NO
                          YES

                          YES
                          Nothing- reuse 302 EFI wiring, HO ECM plugs in. (discussed AD NASUEM IN FAQs)

                          All the same except minor valve body/governor changes.
                          Whatever...

                          Search? Make phone calls?
                          Builder/Owner of Badass Panther Wagons

                          Busy maintaining a fleet of Fords

                          Comment

                            #14
                            If you're looking to have custom work done, which is what swapping in any 351 is going to be in your car, expect to be charged a lot more than the normal engine replacement price.

                            IMO most of the swaps being suggested are only financially viable if you're going to an experienced Ford/Panther guy like Scottmang or price is close enough to "no object" that you might as well have a motor rebuilt and upgraded instead of going unrebuilt used.
                            Last edited by johnunit; 09-13-2011, 08:06 PM.

                            85 4 door 351 Civi Crown Victoria - Summer daily driver, sleeper in the making, and wildly inappropriate autocross machine
                            160KMs 600cfm holley, shorty headers, 2.5" catted exhaust, 255/295 tires, cop shocks, cop swaybars, underdrive pulley, 2.73L gears.
                            waiting for install: 3.27's, Poly bushings, boxed rear arms, 2500 stall converter, ported e7's, etc

                            06 Mazda 3 hatch 2.3L 5AT (winter beater that cost more than my summer car)

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Just do the right thing and put a stock 302 in it, you have everything to do the swap with the 302. Use your intake and front stuff.
                              800 dollar car, msd coil, k&N filter, true duel exhaust, 25 mpg

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 4 template Next
                              Working...
                              X