dropping oil pan: steps?

[BerniniCaCO3]

Hi!

I can't seem to find the somewhat recent thread on this...

Just dropped my engine in last night in class, and today I was asking another teacher about the proper way to install a distributor, and he asked why the oil pump shaft wasn't in...

I am *pissed* at my main instructor for telling me to put in the shaft from the top!
So, I need to drop my oil pan to get the pump shaft in...

What's the easiest procedure?

I don't need to unbolt the engine from the trans, do I? Or remove the trans mounts? Should the engine lift high enough just by removing the engine mounts?

[87_crown_vic]

you are gonna have to drop the pan again to have enough room to unbolt the oil pump and push up where distributor goes... if possible, have an extra hand to use a pair of long needle nose to hold it up while you reposition the oil pump

[hypostang]

Does your pump shaft have the ring on it to prevent it from pulling out ?
like this



If it does you will have to definitely pull the pan , if not you *might* be able to use a magnet and some patience to get it installed , but you risk pulling the shaft out if and when you ever pull the distributor out , and that is never fun . To do it properly pull the pan .

[gadget73]

put it in from the bottom, and make sure the clip is pushed up high enough to keep it from popping out of the oil pump. Make sure the clip fits on there good and snug too, otherwise it might still come out with the distributor.

Honestly, if the motor is just sitting there without all the accessories and that whatnot attatched, it may be easier to just unbolt the motor mounts and lift it back up. The oil pan is a huge pain in the ass to get out with the motor in the car. The mounts have to be unbolted anyway, so if its not a huge amount of extra work, you might wanna just yank the motor back out, fit the pump shaft, and drop it back in rather than try and fight it out.

[BerniniCaCO3]

The extra amount of work would be in unbolting and dropping the tranny to get the engine out again!
My friends would be pissed; because we decided to bolt them together outside of the car in teh first place, getting the motor in took 3 hours last night, fighting all the way to angle the engine+tranny in together as a unit. Lining up the studs on the torque converter, I was told, would have been harder if I'd put the motor and tranny in in the car? We'd undo all of that.

If I removed the clip/retaining ring (as in the photo above) and tried lowering from the top, where is the issue? Getting it to drop in in the correct position?

[BerniniCaCO3]

more importantly, is the length perfectly matched between distributor and oil pump and the distributor would keep it in its place, or is there a possibility, while the car is running (distributor not pulled out or anything), of the shaft working its way up and disengaging from the oil pump, and losing all pressure? If so, yeah, I'd better drop the pan.. Godammit, why did this professor tell me not to put it in from the bottom, when I explicitly asked, and had it all there and exposed to do?

[87_crown_vic]

the clip is made to keep the shaft from moving up and outta the pump while driving or if distributor needs pulled out... we had fun getting one to stay in place when doing engine install at SF07 since the stupid thing kept sliding and we installed original back in since it wouldnt slide out of pump

[hypostang]

If it is in properly and the distributor is seated it can not come out of the pump while the engine is running , I really do not recommend installing it with out the clip if you are planning on doing any future work that involves pulling the distributor because when it falls into the pan it is a PITA to fish it out .

Better to just lift the engine and do it properly . Sorry man , I know thats not what you wanted to hear.

[gadget73]

I've never had all that much trouble mating the converter to the flexplate. I've never done a motor+trans drop but if it took you 3 hours just to plug it into the hole, I'd have to say that doesn't sound easier or less time consuming than doing the motor by itself. If you do end up doing that, whatever you do, do NOT bolt the engine to the trans before lining up the converter studs. You can make the parts go together, but you will break things doing it.

[cld783]

unbolt the engine/trans mounts and just jack it up.. it wont be a fun job but consider it punishment for your mistake.

[86VickyLX]

If you really want to get pissed, pull the oil pan down with it in the car. If you want to save yourself aggravation, and probably time, pull the engine out again.

I've pulled the oil pan out with it in the car for that damn shaft (came out with distributor and got wedged between crank and block). It sucks. You have to do everything blindly, gotta unbolt oil pump and pickup without even seeing it... And getting the oil pan gasket to stay in place while putting it all back together sucks too. Put the driveshaft on there, and make sure that clip is facing up.

[P72Ford]

Question... that is somewhat relevant.

I am going to be pulling the engine out of my car, and changing the rear main seal and oil pan and gasket (on a stand).

If I turn the engine upside down on the stand (no distributor in), will the shaft fall out?

I know with all the Chevys I've built, the shaft usually stays just fine.

I just don't want to button up the pan, and then have the shaft fall out, and have to take it back apart.

Also: I will be removing the engine and transmission from my car as a unit, and re-installing them the same way. I will report back to folks on the ease of doing it. I have pulled quite a few engine/ tranny combos like this and never had an issue... I've done everything from a third gen camaro (taken out, and put back in), to G bodies to A bodies, to Chevy trucks.

Most of the time, I get right in the engine bay and do some man handling to ease the removal/ install, and prevent any body damage.

[86VickyLX]

Question... that is somewhat relevant.

I am going to be pulling the engine out of my car, and changing the rear main seal and oil pan and gasket (on a stand).

If I turn the engine upside down on the stand (no distributor in), will the shaft fall out?

I know with all the Chevys I've built, the shaft usually stays just fine.

I just don't want to button up the pan, and then have the shaft fall out, and have to take it back apart.

As far as I am aware, it shouldn't fall out if that clip stayed in place.

[BerniniCaCO3]

It didn't fall out when I was building mine.
And if it does, you've got it on a stand, even if you have to pull off the oil pan again it's still only 20 minutes and unaggravating minutes at that

Question:
I've got two extra driveshafts (guy I bought the block from had all the parts lying around, and duplicates of many a part-- a packrat like myself).
The retaining clips are set at two different heights on the two driveshafts!
It looks like they're not set into any lip, they're stuck in place by straight friction and nothing else, so a gentle tapping with a punch can move that clip up and down along the shaft?

What's the proper height? Or maybe, push it up too far, and when I bolt up the oil pump let the force of the screws push the retaining clip back down to exactly where it needs to be?

[gadget73]

If I turn the engine upside down on the stand (no distributor in), will the shaft fall out?

No. How do you think I put it in there in the first place? Just make sure that it remains engaged in the pump while the pan is off. Theres always the possibility that the clip moved, though I kinda doubt it. Its easy enough to check though.