loose bolts?!?

[BerniniCaCO3]

Hi!

So in the course of tearing down my engine, I've undone many of the repairs that I did this past summer. Oh well: learning experience and all that

One thing was worrisome. Everything I'd touched, was loose. The valve cover bolts? god, they came out just with the socket, no ratchet for leverage. No wonder it started leaking this winter, just months after changing the gasket
The water pump bolts? Tight, but 10-15 lb-ft would not be an underestimation. Scary.
The starter motor? One bolt came out just between my finger and thumb! The other, as tight as the water pump bolts.

I would swear at the time that I'd tightened them! And yes, more than 15 lb-ft!

Last week a prof advised me to drive around for 50 miles, and when I pull back into the shop to change out my sacrificial oil (to clean out shop rag lint and assembly lube), check and retighten the header bolts: it's so hot there that they're bound to have loosened up. Seems like sound advice.

But could the same have been true for other accessories that aren't quite as close to the combustion, like a starter motor or water pump bolts???
Now, when I took out most of these bolts, they were frozen, so when I put the new ones back in, I frequently used antiseize. Could that be the cause of my troubles? I know I used it on the water pump bolts for sure. Should I use thread sealant instead?
Should I even be using loctite on some of these?
To be sure, In theory I'd hate myself 10, 15 years from now, but to be reasonable this might be the last time any of these components are changed again.

thanks!
-Bernard

[1990LTD]

http://www.boxwrench.net/specs/ford_289_302-5.0.htm

[91waggin]

I replaced the starter a few years ago, and I reused the original bolts and lockwashers. About 6 months later, my starter sounded like it was just grinding, and then quit altogether. Got underneath the car, and lo and behold, the bolts had backed out, and my continued attempts to use the starter had destroyed it, since it was just hanging there, partially engaging the teeth. I'm lucky I didn't chew up the flywheel. I ended up replacing the starter (chalk it up to a learning experience), and when I installed the new one, I used new bolts and lockwashers.

The point of this story is that on anything that's much bigger than the screws that hold valve covers down, I either install or replace lockwashers. Starter, yes. Water pump and accessory brackets, yes. Fan clutch bolts, yes. It's easy for me to do since I have a Home Depot literally 2 minutes from my house.

Lockwashers are the split ring washers that are a little bit springy and compress when you tighten the bolt down. They put outward pressure on the bolts, holding the threads against each other, so that they cannot loosen without a wrench.
Your use of antiseize may have contributed to things backing out prematurely, but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It's just that under continued vibration bolts are going to back themselves out unless they're either super tight or have lockwashers (or maybe loctite) installed, especially if you used antiseize to lubricate the threads. Your use of antiseize may make it so that the next time you have to replace the water pump that the bolts don't snap on you. Don't bother with thread sealant on the water pump bolts, the threads aren't actually doing any sealing.

Use antiseize on:
*Water pump and accessory bolts
*Exhaust manifold bolts
*Intake manifold bolts
*Throttle body studs
*Other stuff you think is likely to corrode in place due to its exposure to coolant or other corroding materials
Don't bother with it on VC gasket screws.

VC gaskets are notorious for backing out, mostly because you can't install them too tight or they'll compress the gaskets and cause leaks. This isn't as big of a deal with the steel-cored rubber VC gaskets you can get from Fel-Pro, but anything without a steel core can easily be overtightened. I like to check the tightness of my VC bolts every oil change, and maybe give them a little half-turn or so to keep them tight.

[BerniniCaCO3]

Thanks for the advice!
The original starter bolts did not have lockwashers... but I'll be sure to add some!
Just noticed according to that link that I was supposed to use loctite on the camshaft retaining bolts: whoops... Professor never mentioned it though, should be OK.

I stole the steel-core gaskets off of an explorer, cleaned them up, added some gasket maker and reused
But tightening the valve cover bolts too much can cause the cork to leak? I started installing them more gently after breaking one off in the head, another good reason, but never considered that tight could CAUSE leaks!

[87_crown_vic]

I stole the steel-core gaskets off of an explorer, cleaned them up, added some gasket maker and reused

no need for gasket maker/sealer stuff on the rubber type gaskets for valve covers... that will cause issues in its own

[86VickyLX]

Oh in addition to retightening the header bolts, you are supposed to retorque the lower intake after 20 minutes of runtime. I wouldn't worry about assembly lube screwing up your engine. It dissolves in petroleum products. And if you're assembling an engine, everything should be cleaned right before assembly anyway so red rags shouldn't be an issue...

[gadget73]

Starter bolts on Fords do randomly back out. Sometimes a combination of new bolts, lock washers, and some blue loctite is required to keep them in place. It depends how slopped out the threads in the trans case are.

[stinkydogfilms]

Is there a formula as to how many fingers on the ratchet equals how much torque?

does using 1 finger to pull on the ratchet equal ____lbs of torque?
2 fingers equal___lbs of torque?
3 fingers equal ___lbs of torque?
4 fingers equal ___lbs of torque?

Any old mechanics ever hear of this?

[86VickyLX]

I've never heard that (I'm young so idk) but, You're assuming a great deal though. You can apply more torque with more fingers but it's not a steady increase. And on top of that, some people are stronger than others.

[PushnFords]

When I first started wrenching (well...at least when I started caring about torques) I'd torque bolts and then pull on them with a wrench to get a feel for the torque I was putting on everything. Then eventually I'd tighten everything by hand and then put a torque wrench on them to see how close I was. After doing that enough I got a feel for it and I'm usually only a few ftlbs off now.

[BerniniCaCO3]

Alright, loctite or at least lockwashers it is! Should I be using lockwashers on header bolts?

Good idea, PushnFords: it would be nice to have a relatively accurate internal torquewrench!

[1987cp]

Should I be using lockwashers on header bolts?

Your new Copperseal gaskets came with new lockwashers.

[87gtVIC]

I used lock washers on my header bolts.