Cleveland or Windsor 351

[NATEHAWK]

Im just gettin a lil info which is better durability power ya know all the goodies.. And what are the differences in these motors?

[boXman]

Cleveland is a big block. Won't work without some major mods, like new motor mounts, another tranny, etc.

[NATEHAWK]

o ok cool just wanted a lil info thats all im goin to do widsor

[Lincolnmania]

sorry to bust your bubble jeremy.......a 351c is a smallblock...........smallblock bellhousing, same motor mount locations...........you would need the engine and all accy's the 351c stopped production in 1974, so they have a v belt setup.........the 351w would be an easier swap, but imo a cleveland powered car would be badass stay away from the 351m and the 400......those are the big block bellhousing engines that wont bolt up to your aod
i have a rebuildable 351c and accys if you are serious about it
scott

[Stu]

Scott, since when does a Cleveland share the SBF bellhousing? I have always heard that you couldn't bolt a 351C to an AOD directly.

[TommyN]

The Cleveland is harder to find parts for. It is physically larger than the 351W, but takes the regular small block mounts and has a small block bellhousing.

Boxes came with 351W power, so that swap would be easier. If you have the bucks, you could stroke the 351W to a 392. How much do you have budgeted for the swap?

Tom

[Lincolnmania]

i dont see why not............the mustang guys use aod's in classic mustangs.......in fact i have compared 302 vs 351 flexplates, and i cant tell any different.....they look the same..........hmm entering unchartered territory again?
scott

[NATEHAWK]

I think i will just do what works well thats we all know will work 351W.....

[boXman]

Ahh, I was thinkin about it after I posted that. 'Cause I remembered Cleveland heads bolt on to a Windsor.

Sorry about the bad info.

[gadget73]

Ahh, I was thinkin about it after I posted that. 'Cause I remembered Cleveland heads bolt on to a Windsor.

They do? I thought it was 351W heads that fit a 289/302, but the Cleveland heads only fit Clevelands and Boss 302?

[boXman]

Yea, they call them Clevors (sp?).

[Blaze86Vic]

You know guys, I know I'm gonna get yelled at for this, but you can put a 460 head on a 302, all it takes is changine the water passage. This isn't a back yard mod, it's a Ford Motor Company mod, I'll post pics of the instructions on how when I get home this weekend.

[Mercracer]

You know guys, I know I'm gonna get yelled at for this, but you can put a 460 head on a 302, all it takes is changine the water passage. This isn't a back yard mod, it's a Ford Motor Company mod, I'll post pics of the instructions on how when I get home this weekend.

You mean 351C, not 460. You would have to break out the JB weld and duct tape to get a 460 head on a 302 block
Many people call the 351M and 400 engines.....Clevelands which only confuses those who do not realize that the 351C was a different engine. Some even call the 400 a 400M which really adds to the goofyness. The story behind this is that some retard at Ford made engine labels with a typo which read "351/400M". Uneducated people read this and proclaimed that they had a 400M engine in their car/truck.
The 351C shares the small block bellhousing pattern and the 28oz flywheel/flexplate. The 351M/400 shares the 429/460 bellhousing bolt pattern but has a 28 oz flywheel/flexplate.
The Boss 302 used a Cleveland head. Since the Cleveland has a dry intake manifold, you need to drill the intake face of the head and plug a deck face hole for use on a 351W or 302/289 block. Bush Performance still makes intakes for adapting a 351C/351M/400 head to a 351W or a 302/289 block. Price Motorsports Engineering makes adapter plates for using a conventional 302 or 351W intake in this application. Original Boss 302 intakes are still produced new by Blue Thunder or are available used on E-Bay.
The 351C actually has a shorter deck than a 351W, so the block is smaller, but the canted valve round/oval port heads are larger than a Windsor head, so the engine needs more room in the engine bay to fit with its headers.
The oiling system absolutely sucks on the 351C 351M and 400 engines. That is why the 351M/400 engines got a bad rap in northern states. They were decent engines, but boneheads refused to run thin oil in the winter, so the bearings failed prematurely. The 351M and 400 used a 351C 2V head. The intakes had a water passage running across the back of the engine between the heads for a sensor, not for cooling.
The cylinder walls are very thin on 351C blocks. Even at .030 over, you can run into cooling problems on the street or cylinder wall failure under drag racing use.
You can get adapters for using Mustang brackets on the front of a 351C engine, so accessories are not a big issue. The 351C shares the oil pan with the 351M/400, so you could use a truck pan in a CV/GM. Headers may be an issue, but I believe that there are shorty headers out there.
It would be cool to run a 351C for something different, but it would be much easier to just stick with a 351W.

[Mercmarquis]

Ahh, I was thinkin about it after I posted that. 'Cause I remembered Cleveland heads bolt on to a Windsor.

I remember reading in a mag that you can bolt a cleveland head on a windsor if you drill and tap the bolt holes and water passage work. Time to hit the mag Archives!!!!

[gadget73]

Interesting. Good info man.