302CID F engine block and heads (technical)

[BigMikeIT]

Hi,

I have this book from 'Car Tech' named "High Performance FORD Engine Parts Interchange" by George Reid.

My Tudor has I believe the 'F' class engine, though it was manufactured in Canada. I believe the long block assembly is a hodge-podge of 302C , with a 351 (possibly Windsor), and the fox-bodied dual sump oil pan.

I have several questions in one post, so answer if you can:

According to this book and others, the stock HP is 200@4200rpm for this EFI.
The torque being 270@2000rpm. I have the K&N box air filter, a mustang H-pipe, with twin 18" cherrybomb glasspacks. Cap and rotor have brass fittings. About how much improvement on these numbers do I have?

According to the book, if it has 302cid cylinder heads (E5TE-PA/E7TE-PA), the displacement at TDC is 62-65cc. It has the same displacement for the 351W heads (E7TE-PA). Notice the ID# and displacement is the same, and looks like either head could have been bolted on.
(If I look at the left side of the engine, near air filter, it looks like there is an extra un-bored exhaust port, and the manifold staggered back)

Now, I figure that due to which ever head is actually bolted on, during 1985-93, the non-HO displacement in the head, and the concave piston head lowered compression even though it is listed at 9:1. If the piston head was replaced with a notched type or a shallow head, the piston and head would clash. If this is the case, is there anyway to get more power from the stock setup without replacing the heads and pistons?

Exhaust manifold: I've read that the stock headers, are actually better for power than using en-equal shorties. Is this true?

If I'm mistaken here with any of my assumptions, let me know.
Thanks.

[Lincolnmania]

your engine is a 5.0 (302) sefi low output
all 302's are small blocks and belong to the windsor family......no cleveland parts were used
yes the panther uses the dual sump pan from the fox chassis
with dual exhaust it rates 160 hp 280 tq
e5 heads were not used on the car 302's after 1985......they were used on the police 351 that book you are reading was probably published in the mid to late 80's lol
your 87 has e6 heads (high swirl)......they arent good for much other than scrap metal
the 86-91 low output 302's have cast dished pistons instead of valve reliefs
stock shorty headers from the mustangs and mk7's are unequal length shorty headers.....the tubes are tiny, good for a stockish motor, but if changing intakes, heads, or cam aftermarket shorty headers would be best.

also moved to 5.0 tech

[BigMikeIT]

I have a reliable problem with this car when pressing the accelerator. By reliable, I mean the problem is persistent though workable.

When I give it the gas, there is a brief hesitation, then the oompf. Over the past 10 years it hasn't worsened. So either it's a mechanical problem or an oddly consistent vacuum leak.

I wish I could bring this car someplace rather than my local service station, so I could get some knowledgeable panther answers. I refuse to bring it to my local lincoln/mercury dealer since they gave me the "it's older than 10 years..we're not concern with Qual control since it's obsolete" rudeness, and they damaged a light bezel and didn't replace some bolts under the hood - very sloppy.

[Lincolnmania]

sounds like a bad throttle position sensor
i'd be more than happy to work on your car if you dont mind driving a little over 3 hrs to me......i'm located near pottsville pa.......been working on panthers for 15 yrs

[BigMikeIT]

Hmm...Sounds like a mission, that might need to wait until the moolah arrives.
Maybe a weekend thing.

[91waggin]

When he says "been working on panthers for 15 years," it tells you almost nothing. Go talk to this man. He knows EVERYTHING.

[jayh]

your engine is a 5.0 (302) sefi low output
all 302's are small blocks and belong to the windsor family......no cleveland parts were used
yes the panther uses the dual sump pan from the fox chassis
with dual exhaust it rates 160 hp 280 tq
e5 heads were not used on the car 302's after 1985......they were used on the police 351 that book you are reading was probably published in the mid to late 80's lol
your 87 has e6 heads (high swirl)......they arent good for much other than scrap metal
the 86-91 low output 302's have cast dished pistons instead of valve reliefs
stock shorty headers from the mustangs and mk7's are unequal length shorty headers.....the tubes are tiny, good for a stockish motor, but if changing intakes, heads, or cam aftermarket shorty headers would be best.

also moved to 5.0 tech

^ good post :stupid:

[BigMikeIT]

Originally, the car had four Cats. Then a local garage about 14 years ago bamboozled my parents when the two upper cats sounded like pingpongballs and claimed they replaced all four and installed two large cats. All they did was weld pipe in their place, and left the 3-ways installed.
I have not gutted the 3-ways.

On the bright side of emissions. My local gas station passes it regardless.
In NY this is good, yet also b/c the owner realizes NYS emissions stations cost $50K and they get nearly bupkis from the state for the testings; Plus, NYS is ending emissions tests for cars older that 1996 since their prevalence is less than the newer cars with ODB.

Feels more than 160HP, maybe it's the torque. The hesitation is most apparent when a load is put on the engine with the first press in D, though barely recognizable in R.

It's the drive to linconmania's location I'm concerned about. It's just about to reach 130K and I drive it maybe 10-50mi a weekend. It also gets about 12-14mpg max. It's a project car, and I'm not concerned with fuel efficiency for weekend use, though for a road trip.....gotta bankroll it.

One day, if the block is healthy enough, I'd like to stroke it to 333cid, and get 350-400hp from it.
However, I like the 351 sound. This block will have to do since it ain't broke yet.

[1990LTD]

Feels more than 160HP, maybe it's the torque.

If your cats aren't there and you either don't have or don't use A/C, you can take that belt off of there and free up like two more horses

[Lincolnmania]

yea the lopo 302 has alot of torque, but not much hp......yrs ago a guy on the forums had his stock 89 town car dynoed......121 rear wheel hp

[BigMikeIT]

Where can I get a dyno test?

[Lincolnmania]

usually a shop that does custom tuning.....tell them you want to get some baseline numbers.....avg price is 100 bucks for 3 dyno pulls

[BigMikeIT]

Yo,

There are two places on LI that offer Dyno Pulls that I was able to locate via our S&K Speed shops:
1) Speed World Co -- $75 for 3 pulls for HP and Fuel/Air Ratio.
speedworldbaldwin.com
594 Sunrise Highway
Baldwin, NY 11510-3039
(516) 771-2525

2)Force Fed Engineering -- couldn't get these folks to answer.
68 East Jefryn Boulevard
Deer Park, NY
(631) 243-6333

The guy at shop #1 said they would run the car in DRIVE "D" upto 3rd gear.
I've seen some dyno tests on Youtube, and I worried the engine would blow if they try to push Hi RPM.

If I were to go 55mpg on the parkway in drive, how much rpm is it usually?

[johnunit]

Don't worry about the RPM. These engines make peak power at 4000RPM at the highest, and you only start to run into issues with possible engine damage well above 5000RPM.

These things can run at peak-power engine speeds for a looooong time without damage.

55mph in 3rd gear (drive) you're probably doing under 1700RPM, and in overdrive (4th gear, gear selector must be in OD position) probably barely over 1000RPM.

Long story short, point out to the guys running the dyno that the stock engine will probably peak in power below 4000RPM, and the engine will likely never see anything approaching dangerous RPM's.

[gadget73]

There is a rev limiter at 6250 thats hard-set in the computer. If by some miracle it actually spun that high, the rev limiter will stop it before things go kablooey. In reality, I very very much doubt its capable of spinning over 5000 rpm at the highest, and thats not enough to hurt anything.