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No conventional brake prop valves in any 88-91??

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    #46
    Okay, that would make sense. If said thingy is on the front brakeline, it would make sense that it's a metering valve; if on the rear, it would be more logical for it to be a proportioning and/or residual pressure valve.

    Nathan in MN showed me a pic of his '89 that clearly showed one line for the front going into some sort of block, so I assume that must be the metering valve. I found an aftermarket one for $50 at Speedway Motors that doubles as a tee, so that's what I evidently should have used on the front brakes of the wagon instead of a regular tee fitting.

    Tonight I made the mistake of trying to explain the concept of brake proportioning valves and metering valves to a small group of non-gearheads. Any time loss of traction was mentioned, the immediate response was "Then you need to let up on the brake or else have antilock brakes". The examples of putting snow tires on only the front of a vehicle or the Taurus with the rear wheels on serving trays were about 99% wasted.
    Last edited by 1987cp; 02-21-2010, 10:54 PM.
    2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

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      #47
      brake systems are weird juju that most people just don't get. I'm certainly not an expert, but what I've read makes sense to me for whatever reason. I still want to tweak on mine, but I can't afford to break it apart and not be able to put it back together so I can get home. What I may end up doing is tossing out all of the stock valving, the stock MC, and the stock booster and duplicate the whole hydraulic system from a 98-02 non-abs model. The front steel lines, the master cylinder, and the booster are all original so it won't be like I'm throwing away good parts.
      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

      Originally posted by phayzer5
      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
        The 88-91 master cylinders have one line out to the fronts as far as I've seen. They probably have a T block on the frame somewhere though. Never looked that close, but I know there is only one hole on the side of the thing for a front brake line. They also have some sort of a thingy threaded between the steel line and the master cyl itself. I'm guessing thats the metering valve, but without further investigation, I'm not positive.
        Mine has 2 out of the front, one on either side of the front of the master cylinder. No T's or anything.
        2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
        2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
        2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
        1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

        Comment


          #49
          hm, I was looking at one pulled from an 89, and it only had one steel line coming out of it. What year is your car ?
          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

          Originally posted by phayzer5
          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by gadget73 View Post
            hm, I was looking at one pulled from an 89, and it only had one steel line coming out of it. What year is your car ?
            91. Maybe a 91 only thing?
            2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
            2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
            2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
            1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

            Comment


              #51
              maybe later production, i dont know. This stuff seemed to change on the fly from year to year for no clear cut reason. I'd really love to be able to document the specifics of box brake system parts. I think its all basically the same 79-87, but after that it seems to have changed at least twice based on what you're telling me your car has. Maybe I'll make that research the topic of some other night's boredom.
              86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
              5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

              91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

              1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

              Originally posted by phayzer5
              I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by pantera77 View Post
                Mine has 2 out of the front, one on either side of the front of the master cylinder. No T's or anything.
                This is interesting. So these two lines really go straight from the master to the brake calipers? If the car is equipped with rear drums, as I assume it would be, that would hint at an integral metering valve feature .......
                2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                Comment


                  #53
                  BTW, did anyone else notice the new Wilwood adjustable combination valve in the most recent Summit catalog? I'm trying to figure out why it's half the price of any other comparable item .... also need to look it up on Wilwood's site and see what it has besides distribution, proportioning, and brake light switch.
                  2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by 1987cp View Post
                    This is interesting. So these two lines really go straight from the master to the brake calipers? If the car is equipped with rear drums, as I assume it would be, that would hint at an integral metering valve feature .......
                    Yep one straight down and one down and across the cross-member, and on the passenger side rear there is a screw in thingy that the rear brake line screws into.
                    2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                    2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                    2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                    1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Further study on an 89 indicates it has a metering valve on the frame. Its a small aluminum Y block with the metering piston inside. It also serves as a splitter for the front brake line plumbing. The proportioning valve for the rear brakes screws right into the side of the master cylinder. Basically its got all the same stuff as the earlier models, but instead of being physically located in one block, its two separate components.
                      86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                      5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                      91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                      1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                      Originally posted by phayzer5
                      I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Any reason behind why?
                        ~David~

                        My 1987 Crown Victoria Coupe: The Brown Blob
                        My 2004 Mercedes Benz E320:The Benz

                        Originally posted by ootdega
                        My life is a long series of "nevermind" and "I guess not."

                        Originally posted by DerekTheGreat
                        But, that's just coming from me, this site's biggest pessimist. Best of luck

                        Originally posted by gadget73
                        my car starts and it has AC. Yours doesn't start and it has no AC. Seems obvious to me.




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                          #57
                          cheaper to make maybe? maybe cheaper to replace individual components if they fail instead of one all in one magic box? dunno. There is a different prop spec for wagons and non-wagons, though the metering valve is the same on all. maybe they figured instead of making 3 magic boxes (wagon, towncar, vic/gm) they could make one metering block, and 3 different screw-on prop valves. No, I don't know why the earlier towncar has a different frame block than others. Its the same valving, but the threads are different.
                          86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                          5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                          91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                          1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                          Originally posted by phayzer5
                          I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Here's some shots of my cars master cylinder:

                            The screw in thingy for the rear:


                            2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                            2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                            2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                            1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                            Comment


                              #59
                              This is confusing ... on the master cylinders I'm used to, the forward outlet is for the rear brakes and the rearward outlet is for the front brakes. Am I to understand that this was changed with the introduction of the new-style master?
                              2012 Mazda5 Touring | Finally working on the LTD again!

                              Comment


                                #60
                                On the 89, the rear line feeds the rear brakes, front feeds the front brakes. On my 86, the rear port feeds front brakes, the front port feeds rear brakes.
                                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                                Originally posted by phayzer5
                                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                                Comment

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