EFI to Carbed.

[Wolfeyes88]

I'm at the point where I'm ready to take a sledge hammer to the engine of my CV. I'm sick of dealing with sensors and relays and all that electronic crap crammed into a perfectly good engine. If I want a computer, I'll buy a computer, but I want a CAR dammnit!

I'd rather deal with adjusting a carb than constantly trying to figure out what electronic gizmo is shot, or which set of wires may be corroded to the point of needing to be replaced.

I'd also rather deal with the lower MPG's and power. Propane is still cheaper than gas around here(bout 1.90 - 2.25 a gallon.) and I can afford the conversion kit, just incase my wallet can't handle the 3.15/gal. for unleaded.

Basicly, what I'm saying is, what all is needed for going from EFI to a carburator on my 302? Am I right in thinking its basicly just swaping out the intake, or will I need new heads and other stuff as well? On top of that, how many evil electronic gizmos will I be able to rid myself of?

FL is not an inspection stated so the whole emissions thing is not an issue. Plus I'm not looking to for some sort of magic bullet that will instantly give me better fuel economy and more power, I'm looking to do something that will salvage what little sanity I have left.

Thanks in advance to all the good panther people.

[1987cp]

My recipe: Performer 289 intake, EDL-1403 or 1406 carburetor, stock-replacement '79 LTD mechanical fuel pump (may require changing front cover and/or adding fuel pump eccentric; aftermarket electric pump with 5-6psi regular works too but is pricier). Run supply side to stock EFI return line on d/s framerail, stock-replacement '79 LTD fuel tank for carbureted application, buy or make fuel pickup out of old fuel sender assembly (drill out mounting plate, solder in 3/8" brake line, attach sender). Ditch all EFI fuel supply lines, ECM, all engine-related wiring and sensors (like that annoying bunch of relays on the p/s fenderwell), also all emissions control devices. Will need to make a patch to cover the ECM hole in the firewall.

Obtain '79 LTD Duraspark II distributor and compatible ignition module such as Duraspark, MSD, or four-pin HEI. New Duraspark wiring harnesses seem to be difficult to find, but junkyard or homemade harness will work. This particular dizzy should come configured with 20 degrees total mechanical advance, which I'm told is fine, but get the Mr. Gasket advance-spring kit and swap to lighter advance springs. Attach single-outlet vacuum advance canister to manifold vacuum and set to 10 to 16 degrees BTDC base timing. Make bloody sure distributor gear matches cam type - steel for roller-tappet, iron for flat-tappet.

Alternatively, get a drop-in Proform HEI from Summit Racing - two wires and you're done, but it's fatter and may not clear 14" air cleaners. Available with steel gear.

Personally, I pulled out ALL factory underhood wiring, reasoning (especially with A/C gone) that if I decide I need something, I can wire it up myself and know where the wires are and what condition they're in.

Exhaust: whatever you want.

[Wolfeyes88]

Oi, this is gonna be a project. Bout how much did all this run ya? If it's more than just north of a grand(bout 1200) I'm screwed.

[Archangel]

Intakes rarely go bad (crack) so you can get one used, you can also get a carb used but then you'd wanna rebuild it (kits are cheap, like $30 for a Holley), then you ca utilize the original supply fuel lines, stock replacement fuel pumps are way cheap too, and the HEI dizzy should be about $200 or so, so I'd say no more than $500 if you play your cards right.

[86VickyLX]

Basicly, what I'm saying is, what all is needed for going from EFI to a carburator on my 302? Am I right in thinking its basicly just swaping out the intake, or will I need new heads and other stuff as well? On top of that, how many evil electronic gizmos will I be able to rid myself of?

you won't need new heads. You'll need a timing cover with the fuel filter. You'll need to change the electronic pump to a manual, remove all the wire harnesses that apply to the efi stuff. you'll need to get headers without O2 sensors, you can get rid of almost all of the sensors.

But IMO, get the EFI fixed.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

[OldBlue1981]

Definitely go with a carb! They're much easier. I love mine!

[1987cp]

Intakes rarely go bad (crack) so you can get one used, you can also get a carb used but then you'd wanna rebuild it (kits are cheap, like $30 for a Holley), then you ca utilize the original supply fuel lines, stock replacement fuel pumps are way cheap too, and the HEI dizzy should be about $200 or so, so I'd say no more than $500 if you play your cards right.

Pretty much. My fuel pump was like $17, carb/intake even brand-new was about $450. Add a little for fuel lines and inline filter - 5/16" brake line works for coming off the stock LTD pump, and NAPA or similar can get you adapters to go to rubber line or even to do hardline all the way like on my Mercury if you want to be fancy. I'll guess maybe $50 for fuel lines and $30 for my Summit air cleaner. Rebuilt Duraspark distributor ran me about $90; Duraspark or HEI modules can be had for $20 or less from AutoZone, and yes, the aftermarket HEI distributor is just under $200.

So let's see ... even with entirely new parts that's roughly $450 plus $50 plus $90 plus $20 plus $20 ..... well under $700, unless I'm forgetting something.

You also don't absolutely have to replace the fuel tank (mine was $113 delivered from an eBay vendor); you can fashion a carb'd pickup with your original EFI tank by removing the electric fuel pump and getting creative with rubber fuel hose on the big mounting plate.

[cld783]

pfff the efi 5.0 doesnt even have that many sensors and is incredibly easy to troubleshoot and work on.. you think troubleshooting wiring and sensors suck? have fun with your efi to carb conversion.

[Mercracer]

I'm at the point where I'm ready to take a sledge hammer to the engine of my CV. I'm sick of dealing with sensors and relays and all that electronic crap crammed into a perfectly good engine. If I want a computer, I'll buy a computer, but I want a CAR dammnit!

I'd rather deal with adjusting a carb than constantly trying to figure out what electronic gizmo is shot, or which set of wires may be corroded to the point of needing to be replaced.

.

I don't recall seeing any posts with you having problems with your engine running.......
Hold off on a carb conversion until you are prepared to do a performance build. Make it worth your time money and effort. Start buying decent parts and then when you have everything you need, go ahead with the conversion. While you are saving for your conversion, you can do things like gears and exhaust.

[87vicFIVEO]

pfff the efi 5.0 doesnt even have that many sensors and is incredibly easy to troubleshoot and work on.. you think troubleshooting wiring and sensors suck? have fun with your efi to carb conversion.

x2, Unless you're doing a hi-po build you're doing nothing more than downgrading your car.

[phayzer5]

come on over to my place and look over my car to see how easy it can be and how clean the engine bay looks without the efi stuff. I never used a mechanical fuel pump, instead opting for a holley red and splicing into the factory lines. I used a piece of 3/8" brake line in place of the stock pump for a pickup, New RPM edelbrock intake and a semi-used (10 miles on it) 1406 carb. It needed to be tuned down 1.5 steps with the tuning kit, but that combo worked great for me. Everything else can stay stock. I had previously put e7 heads under my CFI intake system, and then about 4 months after the carb swap slapped a 35-235-3 comp cams cam in it.

[1987cp]

x2, Unless you're doing a hi-po build you're doing nothing more than downgrading your car.

Someone hasn't looked up his 50mm throttle body lately .........

[Lincolnmania]

i have a stock 86 vic wagon on the road with a 185,000 miles. the efi 302 hauls ass, gets 19 mpg........efi to carb is fucking stupid in my opinion..........scan it for codes for christs sake

[gadget73]

Before you go changing stuff, you really should be sure you know why it runs bad. If there is some internal problem with the engine, a carb isn't going to fix anything. The EFI is really pretty simple to deal with, and its reasonably reliable. It would be a shame to go spending the time and effort to convert it to a carb for a bad plug wire or a broken vacuum line or something. Even worse would be doing it to find out you've got a burnt valve and a V7 engine. Ripping stuff off simply because its "new and scary" is a rather poor way to go about repairing things. Besides, if they ever do decide to do emissions down there, you're screwed.

[Wolfeyes88]

I thought long and hard about it last night. Yeah. I'll stick with the efi. I may hate the very thought of it, and I still feel that computers and the like have no place in cars, but facts are facts, florida is pretty cheap for gas(realativly) but it's still quickly approaching $4 a gallon.

If I had the money I'd get a whole new engine. This one has rolled the OD at least twice, and it's well on its way to rolling again(186,864.9 exactly). It was rebuilt once back in '99.

While the motor was out I would redo all of the wiring in the engine compartment and get the tranny rebuilt(possibly swap to a C4 or a T5).

The catch to all of this? Well first money. Most of my money right now is locked up in rent and utility bills. The second is availability. The only place I could reliably get any kind of motor is auto zone or advanced. Before anybody says to get a 5.0 out of a MK, explorer or mustang, heres a bit of info. For the passed five months I've been checking every impond lot, wrecker service and bone yard within 30 miles for ANY kind of 302 EFI with piss poor results. Anytime I find one in good working order(like in a wrecked explorer) guess what, I can't have just the motor. I need to buy the whole damn car. Usually its in an impound, so I have to pay off the impound fees, often times it's not paid off yet so I've essentially gotta buy the car twice(once from the lot and once from the dealer who sold it) towing fees to get it to my house... By the time I get through all of that, the motor usually ends up costing over 5k. That'd be fine if my car was a rare muscle car, but come on, it's a friggen crown vic.

I could just scrap this one and get one in better condition. The problem there? People down here seem to think even the most battered, beaten up, worn out piece of crap on the road is worth at least 2 grand, just because it still runs. Runs like crap, but runs.
[/rant]

Edit: I would throw the scanner on except the plug for it is falling off (wires and insulation coroded through) and damned if I can't find another one to splice on there. Nobody has one.

BTW phayzer5, do you know of any JY's between you and Tampa that still carry parts for theese cars? The ones I've been to don't have anything before '95-ish.