the 85 has a small knock - top end???

[1987cp]

Another thing...have you checked to see if it's an externally generated noise? I.e., something coming from the accessory drives? That stuff on the front of the engine can make some pretty scary noises now and then, and they'll drive you nuts till you find 'em.

I had that happen on the '87. Alternator bolt had worked its way loose and was intermittently coming into contact with the fan. I stopped by the side of I-65 to give the thing a good going-over just to make sure nothing appeared to be broken, only to notice the loose bolt several days later.

[Nathan in MI]

We had it happen one time on the '79 Dodge...the battery got a little bit out of place and was moving around so every time you hit the brakes it'd shift a little and hit the radiator fan. Now that was an unsettling noise....hearing KLACK KLACK KLACK KLACK KLACK every time you tried to stop!

[gadget73]

HHhmmm... i poked around while changing the valve covers but didnt really know what I was looking for. Where can i find more info on rotating the motor over while checking for preload and improper loosness??

There's 2 ways to do this. The most exact way is like this:

engine at TDC, compression stroke for #1 cylinder
back off the adjustments on both rockers.
Turn the bolts in by hand until the rocker reaches zero lash
From this point to proper torque (20 ft/lb) the bolt should turn between 1/2 to 1 turn. If its more or less, something is funky. Ideally this is supposed to be done with a dial indicator but just watching what you're doing is fine for a stock motor. By the book,

From this point, turn the engine 90 degrees, do the next cylinder in the firing order, and so on till you get all 8 done.

The cheater sequence from my 1985 Ford powertrain book says to do the following at TDC
1E
1I
7I
5E
8I
4E

rotate 360 degrees

5I
2E
4I
6E

rotate 3/4 turn
2I
7E
3I
3E
6I
8E


Really in your case you don't need to do the proper preload check, just get the valves where they're supposed to be closed and try to rock the rocker arm. If it flops around like its loose, thats the problem child. Likely that particular set of parts is going to have a problem, bad lifter, bent pushrod, something messed up with the rocker arm, etc. Basically if everything you can see is fine, you're down to a bad lifter or a wiped cam lobe. Diagnosing that involves pulling the intake for inspection.

[85crownHPP]

I see... is this the way you're supposed to tighten them down after removing them too??
Should I test them this way and then just go ahead and remove each rocker, pull the rod to check for cloggedness and put em back?? Might as well right??? I doubt the guy who put the car together tightend them and/or checked them this way if the car would run without it...

Would you expect new lifters in a short block thats re-done by a machine shop??
I might just buy new lifters and rods... I plan on new rods anyway for the E7 heads.
I also need to find out if this has a roller cam in it or not... different lifters yes? the donor engine for the car was an 86 block but i dont know if they rebuilt it "to spec" for an 85 or not... whatever that might result in.
I need a valvetrain for dummies book...

I keep forgetting to drive her to work and listen with my boss' stethescope...

[Nathan in MI]

Should I test them this way and then just go ahead and remove each rocker, pull the rod to check for cloggedness and put em back?? Might as well right??? I doubt the guy who put the car together tightend them and/or checked them this way if the car would run without it...

Couldn't hurt!

Would you expect new lifters in a short block thats re-done by a machine shop??

Probably. Was the cam replaced?

I might just buy new lifters and rods... I plan on new rods anyway for the E7 heads.

Why? Don't need to swap pushrods for E7 heads...

I also need to find out if this has a roller cam in it or not... different lifters yes?

Yes.

[P72Ford]

I couldn't here the sound in the first vid, although it is very audible in the second vid. Sounds like lifters to me. At first I thought possibly an exhaust leak, but its too fast for idle (those aren't usually really audible @ idle).

Engine #1 in my '88 was infamous for the morning rattle, especially in the winter. Sometimes it sounded like she was going to explode on me; but it never did. However, the car had really low op, and would often do the tick, tick @ idle. I think the op was like 10 pounds at idle; but I never had a gauge on it. It mostly happened in the winter time.

This happened maybe one or two times to my '90 in really cold temps (10 deg F to below 0). Ehhh, you know, that 15-40 takes a while to get up top there.

That definitely sounds like lifters to me. It isn't rapping, so it probably is not the bottom end or bearings.

[cld783]

could it be piston slap?

[gadget73]

I see... is this the way you're supposed to tighten them down after removing them too??

Supposed to yes, in reality not normally. Its a pedastal mount rocker, so as long as the pushrod length and shims (if needed) are verified correct once, you can install and remove as much as you'd like and it will always be the same adjustment. I personally just bolt mine down since I know they're where they belong.

Should I test them this way and then just go ahead and remove each rocker, pull the rod to check for cloggedness and put em back?? Might as well right??? I doubt the guy who put the car together tightend them and/or checked them this way if the car would run without it...

Wouldn't hurt, though I'd be more concered about the pushrods being bent than clogged. Don't believe I've ever seen that happen but I suppose anything is possible. You'd likely have lost the top end a long time ago if they were clogged. Most of the time most people won't check the preload, and in all honesty on a stock motor without any head or block shaving, its not necessary to bother as long as you're using all the stock parts. Its nice to verify but most of the time its not going to be wrong.

Would you expect new lifters in a short block thats re-done by a machine shop??

Flat tappet, yes. Its required and you couldn't get away without doing it. Using old lifters on a new cam will destroy the cam and lifters. Roller cam, no. Unless they're damaged most of the time its fine to recycle them.

I might just buy new lifters and rods... I plan on new rods anyway for the E7 heads.
I also need to find out if this has a roller cam in it or not... different lifters yes? the donor engine for the car was an 86 block but i dont know if they rebuilt it "to spec" for an 85 or not... whatever that might result in.
I need a valvetrain for dummies book...

Yes, different lifters. Extremely easy to identify if you have the lower intake off but not so much easy otherwise. If you remove the lower intake and you see the metal spider and the dogbones between the lifters, its a roller motor. The lifter itself will have a wheel on it. Flat tappet doesn't have any of that, and the lifter is, oddly enough, flat.

Pushroeds also don't go bad, so unless they're bent or for some reason the end got mangled up there really isn't any need to replace them on a basically stock engine. I would stick them in some kerosene or whatever to clean them but thats about all. Flatness check is also easy, lay several together and roll them on a table. If one is bent you'll see.

I keep forgetting to drive her to work and listen with my boss' stethescope...[/QUOTE]

[gadget73]

could it be piston slap?

that would usually go away when it warms up. I suppose its possible if the skirt was collapsed or something, but probably not real likely.

[85MercPark]

I agree, valve train, lifter probably, but could be a bad lobe on the cam. Had one go on my 78, sounded just like that.

[85crownHPP]

Since changing the oil and using some lucas, the noise seems to come and go once it warms up now... so Ive been worrying about it less (a little less). Still driving at least once a week for a decent duration...


Say I actually pull the upper intake off, since I found out this is mostly all's needed to pull out the lifers... is there any good way to "check" a lifter for sure for being the cause of the noise??
Pretend its a brake master cylinder and try to bleed it?? see if crap comes out?? finger the holes in the valley??? roll the pushrods across a flat smooth surface like a pool cue??
Cause this is something I might like to do now that I know you dont have to take off the heads...

[torquelover]

Try this out. Yank the valve covers, put something on the manifolds to keep oil off of them. Start the car. Lightly put pressure on each rocker at the pushrod end. When the clicking stops, that the culprit. At the same time, you should see oil coming up through the top of all pushrods. It's easier on my motor with the Crane Roller Rockers, but you should be able to clearly see it.