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    #1

    Battery charging- MPG improvements

    Gentlemen,
    Need some input from some electrical smart guys out there. I have done some electrical work in the past (wind turbines, not cars). I was thinking about putting some solar panels on my dash and/or back deck and wiring them to the battery IOT reduce load on the alternator and alternator charging time. Less alternator charging= better mileage. Some guys on eco-modder are getting 3-5% better mileage by installing an alternator cut-out switch. I was thinking this might be good for a few percent improvement. Any thoughts?
    2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
    185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
    JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Access to this page has been denied
    http://www.harborfreight.com/15-watt-12-volt-solar-panel-96418.html
    px-captcha

    Something like this....
    2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
    185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
    JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.

    Comment

      #3
      I was thinking diodes to the battery (to prevent backfeeding and fires), and a fuse on the solar panel end (in case the diodes fail). Maybe a bigger alternator pulley for the reduced load also.
      2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
      185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
      JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.

      Comment

        #4
        Can the system be kept at 12 to 13 volts. Lower than that will cause issues with the ECMs output.
        Scars are tatoos of the fearless

        Comment

          #5
          Should be 12 volts at 15 watts (1.5 amps)
          2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
          185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
          JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.

          Comment

            #6
            How much will this cost to install? I can't see getting your money back in even the first year or two? You said a 3-5% increase, which is less than 1MPG. You could probably pick that up by inflating the tires a little more which costs nothing.
            2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum (Ice White / Blonde)
            2022 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7 Etorque, Built to Serve Edition, (Granite Crystal / Black)
            Past Panthers
            1989 Grand Marquis LS (Cabernet/Grey), 1989 Lincoln Town Car SS (White/Blue), 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis Ultimate (White/Black)

            Originally posted by Lincolnmania
            if its got tits or tires it's bound to give you trouble

            Comment

              #7
              Solar panel about 60 bucks. Wire, don't know (I have it already). Diodes, don't know- not much. Fuse, not much. Battery terminal doo-hickeys maybe $10?Understood that it isn't much of an increase, but one way of looking at it is dropping the price you pay for gas by 20 cents a gallon at a 5% increase in efficiency. 15 gallons per fill-up = $3.00 saved per fill up, which translates to about $6 a week for this guy. 52 weeks in a year adds up to $312 a year. So for a hundred dollar (max) investment, I save $300 a year- sounds good to this guy. I understand tire pressure makes you more efficient. I run LRR tires and 36 psi. I don't look at it as one or the other. How about I do both? Trust me- I am not about losing money on something like this.
              2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
              185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
              JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.

              Comment

                #8
                Switching out the alternator is easy, just interrupt the green/red wire to shut it off. Problem is, with the electrical draw and the ECM it really needs good clean stable voltage or you risk doing more harm to the electrical system. That $300 a year savings will go out the door real quick if you smoke an ECM from power supply problems. I suspect you'd get better and safer gains from underbody aerodynamics. Add a splash pan from the front bumper back to the firewall to "clean" the airflow under the car. That would probably be less expensive, and I'd bet it would get you the same or better fuel mileage increases.
                86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                Originally posted by phayzer5
                I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                Comment

                  #9
                  And theres the reduced battery life to deal with...

                  Alex.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Well the idea is not to cut off the alternator, but to charge the battery with some solar so the alternator does not have to charge as much....make sense?
                    2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
                    185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
                    JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Maybe pullies would be a better idea...hmmmm. I need some data on this stuff! (load when everything is on- average load, effect of alternator charger on MPG, etc)
                      2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
                      185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
                      JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        I had a very different scenario where I had my electric fan mod kicking on, and of course, ALL current comes from the highest voltage source around, so the fan would full-field the alternator when it kicked on. My 1000+ cca battery didn't come into the equation.
                        If your solar cells contribute 12V and the alternator is contributing 14V, the cells... won't contribute at all. They won't come into play until they match or exceed alternator output voltage. So make sure you tack on a 3v cell in series to get a 15V solar cell.

                        Also, an alternator is "self regulating" in a manner of speaking. The amount of load it puts on the system, the amount of torque it takes to turn, is directly proportional to the current flowing through it. I think: correct me if I'm wrong, or, if the equations aren't so linear. A kill switch should be unecessary, and, seems like a dangerously overengineered weak point (as far as failing to come back online when you turn on the a/c and suddenly try to pull 20amps through your little solar cells).
                        I'd just add 15V of supply and wire it on in!

                        Make sure that it safely and successfully drops to the alternator voltage, because, obviously, it can't sustain the ouput.

                        Err, what I mean to say... with my fan example, the alternator couldn't keep up with the fan, at least not when it started up (after it was running, it could), so theoretically system voltage would drop and drop until it reached 12.5V or so, battery voltage, and the battery would start contributing.

                        So if you wired in 15V of solar cells, when it can't sustain the current draw of everything, it should be able to safely drop to 14.5V where the alternator can take up the rather significant slack. I think, there won't be problems here. But for a second, you might end up with blown fuses or fused wires to your 15V solar cell system when it tried to pass 30 amps of current for some sudden load, like the a/c clutch, electric fan, or giant sound system, etc.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hmm... there are definitely charts of alternator potential current output vs rpm,
                          just for random example: http://www.pkys.com/Alternators/Curves.JPG

                          So putting a larger pulley will effectively make your alternator lower output; it'll turn at fewer rpms.
                          The only limit on the high rpm side of things is the bearings, I think. That is to say, why not just have a tiny generator with a tiny pulley spinning at 20,000rpm to make a 200amp alternator with very little copper? Because it would come apart at the bearings, or the wiring would overheat, I think is why.

                          As you see the curves are very steep at first, so just make sure that at a 700rpm idle your output with your particular alternator will be at least maybe 30amps, or you're going to have trouble with the air conditioning.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            reducing the load on the system may be easier and more effective. Swap the incandescent bulbs for LED, stuff like that. Underdrive crank pulley may also help some since it would reduce the speed of all accessories, at the possible downside of reduced AC performance at idle or maybe reduced power steering assist
                            86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica).
                            5.0 HO, CompCams XE258,Scorpion 1.72 roller rockers, 3.55 K code rear, tow package, BHPerformance ported E7 heads, Tmoss Explorer intake, 65mm throttle body, Hedman 1 5/8" headers, 2.5" dual exhaust, ASP underdrive pulley

                            91 Lincoln Mark VII LSC grandpa spec white and cranberry

                            1984 Lincoln Continental TurboDiesel - rolls coal

                            Originally posted by phayzer5
                            I drive a Lincoln. I can't be bothered to shift like the peasants and rabble rousers

                            Comment

                              #15
                              I believe you have a point gadget!
                              2004 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
                              185 degree stat. 21mm rear swaybar with moog end links, Moog progressive rear springs.
                              JLT intake, B&M transmission pan, 2.25 inch duals, magnaflows, Powerstop drilled/slotted front rotors and ceramic pads. Kenwood Excelon deck, Kenwood 6x8 3-ways all the way around.

                              Comment

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