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    #1

    Performance Questions.

    1. Why does the Modular 4.6L V8 develop such little power? When I first bought my 1995 Mercury GM, my buddy asked about the engine. He was surprised to find out that it developed less than 200 HP. That got me wondering, 'Why does my engine suck so bad?'

    2. Why is there such a jump in HP development between the 2 Valve SOHC 4.6L and the 4 Valve DOHC 4.6L? On average the 4 Valve has an additional 60-80 HP above the 2 valve.

    3. With the following list of modifications what is a reasonable expectation of HP development afterward?
    Maruader Air Box with 80mm MAF
    PI Intake Header
    Ported Upper Plenum
    Underdrive pulleys, with Stock Alternator Pulley
    MSD Coil Packs
    Performance Spark Plugs and Wides
    Performance cams
    Performance Exhaust Headers
    Performance Catalytic Converter
    Delete 2nd Cat
    Magnaflow Dual X-pipe Exhaust
    Delete Mech. Fan with Elec. Fan conversion.
    ECU Retune
    Last edited by jordanindenmark; 12-19-2014, 02:24 PM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Heads and intake are different on the 2V vs. the 4V. Also, the NPI heads on your 95 motor suck. Just a PI headswap (99+ cars) and dual exhaust would help out.

    For your list I'd go PI swap, exhaust, j-mod the trans (or swap it out for a newer one with much better internals and add a better torque converter), change rear gear ratio, tune if you can and enjoy. The longtube headers made to fit these cars are likely going to cost you more than the car is worth. Skip the MSD coils and keep the stockers. OEM is known to be much better. If you must, paint them red.

    With a PI swap and the right tune you could see around 220HP. These cars take a LOT of $$ to make even something that resembles "fast". Trying to get 4K lbs. of steel designed for comfort and reliability to run 12's in the 1/4 isn't cheap.
    These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by jordanindenmark
      1. Why does the Modular 4.6L V8 develop such little power? When I first bought my 1995 Mercury GM, my buddy asked about the engine. He was surprised to find out that it developed less than 200 HP. That got me wondering, 'Why does my engine suck so bad?'
      It's not made for performance, even so, modulars, especially 2v's are not known for their power. 91-95's are extra crappy do the reliable but poor flowing aluminum intake. Modulars also cost a lot of money to make power out of.

      Originally posted by jordanindenmark
      2. Why is there such a jump in HP development between the 2 Valve SOHC 4.6L and the 4 Valve DOHC 4.6L? On average the 4 Valve has an additional 60-80 HP above the 2 valve.
      Those 16 extra valves help a lot. However, in stock form their not the greatest thing ever either, plus they are fuck huge.

      Originally posted by jordanindenmark
      3. With the following list of modifications what is a reasonable expectation of HP development afterward?
      Maruader Air Box with 80mm MAF
      PI Intake Header
      Ported Upper Plenum
      Underdrive pulleys, with Stock Alternator Pulley
      Performance cams
      Performance Exhaust Headers
      Magnaflow Dual X-pipe Exhaust
      Delete Mech. Fan with Elec. Fan conversion.
      ECU Retune
      ~250 maybe

      Originally posted by jordanindenmark
      MSD Coil Packs
      Performance Spark Plugs and Wides
      Delete 2nd Cat
      Performance Catalytic Converter
      Nothing power wise there.


      I agree 100% with Fordman. Find a low mile PI engine (01+ on panthers), and use that as a base. It will already have half the "performance" parts you want. The only long tubes that fit 92-02's IIRC are the stainless works, and while they are nice as hell, they also cost a ridiculous amount. J mod the trans, get a better convertor, even the factory 11.25" would be an upgrade, throw in some 3.55's and a trac-lok.


      Before you do any of that though, I'd be upgrading the brakes and suspension.
      2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
      2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
      2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
      1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

      Comment

        #4
        Just looked- Stainlessworks long tubes for the 95 Vic (or any Aero/Whale body Vic for that matter)- $920.00. As much as I'd like a set, my wallet says f that. I have however considered getting OBX longtubes for my 03 LX Sport, maybe they have a setup for the earlier Vics???

        I would add a nice one-piece driveshaft and some big brakes to that list before I add ANY power to the car itself. Having a bunch of power on hand isn't any good if you snap a driveshaft or can't stop it safely.

        My question would be what is your budget for this and what is your end goal? Based on this we can give you some better direction. And whatever your budget is you might as well double it because most off the shelf stuff (i.e.- Mustang) parts won't work on a Vic so there is often fab work or specialty parts involved.

        Either way, it is still rather fun to surprise a few people here and there that think they can't be shut down by a grandpa car, lol...
        These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.

        Comment

          #5
          My 93 surprises the hell out of a lot of people. PI swapped and 3.55 limited slip rear with good tires and it will ricer roll very well.

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
          rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

          Originally posted by gadget73
          ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

          Originally posted by dmccaig
          Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by FordMan77 View Post
            Just looked- Stainlessworks long tubes for the 95 Vic (or any Aero/Whale body Vic for that matter)- $920.00. As much as I'd like a set, my wallet says f that. I have however considered getting OBX longtubes for my 03 LX Sport, maybe they have a setup for the earlier Vics???

            I would add a nice one-piece driveshaft and some big brakes to that list before I add ANY power to the car itself. Having a bunch of power on hand isn't any good if you snap a driveshaft or can't stop it safely.

            My question would be what is your budget for this and what is your end goal? Based on this we can give you some better direction. And whatever your budget is you might as well double it because most off the shelf stuff (i.e.- Mustang) parts won't work on a Vic so there is often fab work or specialty parts involved.

            Either way, it is still rather fun to surprise a few people here and there that think they can't be shut down by a grandpa car, lol...
            These cars already have pretty good brakes. Compared to some box guys who are pushing power and using stock 98 brakes (me aswell). I'd get PI heads/intake and then do the air box off an 05+ interceptor, 3.55s, jmod and maybe a cam.
            __________________________________________________


            1985.03 Crown Vic. Coupe "CVGT" Build thread - china whirlybird, burnout machine.
            The only 6 speed box on a late model frame.

            Originally posted by SVT98t
            It has air ride. I've disabled it since I've been jacking it up and down.

            That is how you're supposed to jack it.

            Up and down.

            -ryan s.

            Comment

              #7
              I would have the NPI heads ported (as they flow more than ported PI heads) and install a PI intake. We were charging 895 assembled for NPI heads machined to match PI intakes.
              Scars are tatoos of the fearless

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by turbo2256b View Post
                I would have the NPI heads ported (as they flow more than ported PI heads) and install a PI intake. We were charging 895 assembled for NPI heads machined to match PI intakes.
                Do you add metal in the teardrop channel of the coolant passages then port those to make up for the overlap?

                Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                Originally posted by gadget73
                ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                Originally posted by dmccaig
                Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by FordMan77 View Post
                  Just looked- Stainlessworks long tubes for the 95 Vic (or any Aero/Whale body Vic for that matter)- $920.00. As much as I'd like a set, my wallet says f that. I have however considered getting OBX longtubes for my 03 LX Sport, maybe they have a setup for the earlier Vics???

                  I would add a nice one-piece driveshaft and some big brakes to that list before I add ANY power to the car itself. Having a bunch of power on hand isn't any good if you snap a driveshaft or can't stop it safely.

                  My question would be what is your budget for this and what is your end goal? Based on this we can give you some better direction. And whatever your budget is you might as well double it because most off the shelf stuff (i.e.- Mustang) parts won't work on a Vic so there is often fab work or specialty parts involved.

                  Either way, it is still rather fun to surprise a few people here and there that think they can't be shut down by a grandpa car, lol...
                  My goal is to create a pretty kick ass sleeper over the next 2 years. I have a budget of $15000 - $20000, my goal power wise is 400-450 HP. I am probably going to have to rebuild the engine and have it machined for more displacement (or find/purchase a Maruader DOHC V8), port the intake heads, and supercharge the whole deal. I also plan and doing as much of the work I can myself

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Heck, with that kind of budget I'd yank the 4.6L altogether and dump a Coyote 5.0 in it, get a tune/standalone controller to run the beefed up 4R70W you will have to build behind it, a custom one-piece driveshaft, 3:55's and away you go. Would be close to your HP goal right off the bat and still be N/A. I'd bet there are some stock 5.0's in the JY by now for a decent price.
                    These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.
                    • Likes 1

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by FordMan77 View Post
                      Heck, with that kind of budget I'd yank the 4.6L altogether and dump a Coyote 5.0 in it, get a tune/standalone controller to run the beefed up 4R70W you will have to build behind it, a custom one-piece driveshaft, 3:55's and away you go. Would be close to your HP goal right off the bat and still be N/A. I'd bet there are some stock 5.0's in the JY by now for a decent price.
                      This!
                      If I had that kind of money to spend on one of my cars, this is EXACTLY what I would do (along with a frame swap from a newer whale for the better parts and aftermarket brakes).

                      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
                      rides: 93 Crown Vic LX (The Red Velvet Cake), 2000 Crown Vic base model (Sandy), 2003 Expedition (the vacation beast)

                      Originally posted by gadget73
                      ... and it should all work like magic and unicorns and stuff.

                      Originally posted by dmccaig
                      Overhead, some poor bastards are flying in airplanes.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        With a Coyote swap, you'll get closer to your goal if you install a manual transmission, most of the power actually making it to the wheels. The Tremec T56 Magnum 6spd is a good solid choice, probably an adapter made for it to bolt to the Coyote. That and a Procharger setup and you could easily have 500whp on low boost.
                        88 Town Car (wrecked, for sale)
                        Walker OEM duals with muffler deletes

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Issue is the '95 GM doesn't really have too much room under the hood (I'm afraid of modifying the intake and upper plenum for this reason). Plus I like the idea of a transmission, engine, and body matching original. Although the idea of motor swap isn't completely out of consideration.

                          http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticles/0909st_increasing_power_output_4_6l_modular_ford_motor/


                          How realistic is this article? What would it take to hit 440 HP?

                          Comment

                            #14
                            If you want to make power out of a 2v modular forced induction is the only way to go.
                            2020 F250 - 7.3 4x4 CCSB STX 3.55's - BAKFlip MX4
                            2005 Grand Marquis GS - Marauder sway bars, Marauder exhaust, KYB's
                            2003 Marauder - Trilogy # 8, JLT, kooks, 2.5" exhaust, 4.10's/31 spline, widened rear's, metco's, addco's, ridetech's 415hp/381tq
                            1987 Colony Park - 03+ frame swap, blown Gen II Coyote, 6R80, ridetechs, stainless works, absolute money pit. WIP

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Yep. And for the cost I'd probably snail one before I'd throw an S/C on one. I hate to tell you but that stock 95 trans will die a horrible death behind 400+ HP even if it's upgraded with the latest greatest parts around. The case design and valvebody alone were limiting factors let alone the crappy mechanical diode, broken accumulator springs, etc.. I killed the stock 95 trans in my T-Bird even with the updated accumulators, Mercon V fluid and a j-mod. And that was with a completely stock 4.6L.

                              If you're going for numbers matching and power, then I'd just pull the existing motor/trans out and set it in the back of the garage and swap in a newer 4.6L and trans and go from there. That way if you ever want to have it "matching numbers" you can swap it back in. Trying to get that much power out of a 95 just isn't cost effective and I'd hate to see you blow that much of a budget on something trying to get 400Hp from it AND make it somewhat reliable when there are much better proven methods out there these days.
                              These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.

                              Comment

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