My first post - 1985 colony park in uk - cfi & eec-vi issues!

[melharris]

My first post, hope it is in the right place!

Had my Colony Park here in the UK for 30 months now. It was a 1 owner North Carolina car. It had 85k now its up to 92k. I have had a stalling issue for the past month or so, tick over seems to settle at different revs, when its low the revs dip and it stalls, starts up right away though.

So far: changed PCV valve, EGR valve, which made it worse, so for now have gone back the old one. Cleaned the Throttle Body.

Waiting for parts to come from the US: Throttle Body Repair Kit, EGR Vacuum Solenoid Connector, EGR Pressure Feedback Sensor (DPFE) and a Throttle Position Sensor.

Today we tried to read the EEC-IV using a bulb, got 2 codes out: 23 (Throttle Position Sensor out of range) & 85 (Shift Solenoid or circuit fault) AOD fault I guess. I had the transmission rebuilt when the car first came over, so I guess that may be an old code. We then tried to clear the codes by disconnecting the self test jumper then by disconnecting the battery, both of which failed to clear the codes.

I have today ordered a Gunson 77032 EEC-IV fault code reader, which I hope will make reading the codes easier.

Has anyone any ideas on clearing the codes or what the stalling issue is? These cars are rare in Europe and with the CFI only on 84-85 cars I cant find anyone who really knows much!

Many thanks!

[VicCrownVic]

Welcome!

That makes 2 members here with wagons in the UK (that I'm aware of).

The AOD is a mechanical transmission, so code 85 should be Canister Purge Solenoid circuit failure. (http://www.grandmarq.net/oldfuelinjection/page48.html, http://www.troublecodes.net/ford/eec-iv/)

Other than that I don't know enough to offer any real help, but I know some of the other members should be able to help.

[kishy]

2x Welcome!

My '84 Town Car, which is mechanically the same, gave me a hell of a time due to a combination of a handful of issues. I'd never call myself an expert but I've got some thoughts on how this junk works from those experiences, thanks to input of folks here and many hours of sadness.

Given that the CFI system used on the V8 is not capable of regulating air input, only "fuel to match the expected amount of air", I would begin chasing this problem with:

1 - rectifying codes, such as TPS as you are doing. Do not throw out the old part, especially given that they aren't readily available to you. If the TPS is wacky, the computer may believe the throttle is at a different position than it really is, and provide an incorrect amount of fuel.

2 - verifying fuel delivery.
-Check fuel pressure and make sure you're somewhere in the range of 35ish-45ish PSI. Verify this both when it's working correctly, and when it starts to idle lower and stalls. The fuel pump may be weak, but only showing symptoms intermittently.
-Change the fuel filter (but for reference values, find out the fuel pressure before AND after doing so).
-Inspect the wiring in the vicinity of the green coloured relay by the [American] driver's side firewall area. The green relay is the fuel pump relay and if the wiring is in degraded condition, the fuel pump may not see enough voltage.

If 1 and 2 above check out OK, or particularly if replacing the TPS yields continued sensor indications in codes, break out the multimeter and start testing the voltage at each sensor (nominal 5V, mine does 4.6V and works). If voltage 'in' is low, voltage 'out' will be out of spec, and it all goes downhill.

Unlike a carb, thorough disassembly of the throttle body will not give much of an opportunity to clean or adjust anything, so do not disassemble it. Keep the "throttle body repair kit" on hand in case you need to change the injectors later. If you do need to change the injectors, you will need to take apart the throttle body which is when those gaskets may become valuable to you.

In particular, when I was dealing with it refusing to idle at a particular RPM and kept coming down low enough to stall, my fuel pump ended up being one of the major contributors that cleaned it up. I did have remaining ignition issues after that which cleaned it up the rest of the way but the major cause of it wanting to stall seemed to be the pump for me.

[sly]

The EGR setup on these can also be problematic and cause no end of stupid running from what I've read on these forums. There's a couple of guys that know what to do with that, hopefully they'll be by before long to add their 2 cents.

[kishy]

The EGR setup on these can also be problematic and cause no end of stupid running from what I've read on these forums. There's a couple of guys that know what to do with that, hopefully they'll be by before long to add their 2 cents.

Oh, that. I forgot about that. It won't do any real operational harm to cap off vacuum to the EGR to verify if it makes a difference. Verify the valve is 100% closed also. There are two designs of EGR I've found, both have E4 part numbers, one has a rounted pintle head (the 'plug' that seals the valve) and one has a pointed one. The pointed one I found was prone to jamming in the bore and staying partially open.

Small sample size but worth noting.

[gadget73]

Canp failure probably means its either unplugged, or the solenoid is bad. Its one of the three on the valve cover, but I don't know which. The vacuum line from that runs to a disc-shaped thing with 3 hoses on it that is somewhere near the AC compressor. Not likely the cause of any real problems but if its leaking vacuum that will not do you favors. Vacuum leaks of all sorts are bad on these.

The TPS code will give you grief. These have very little input from the engine to control fuel. It relies on engine speed, throttle position, and engine load (MAP sensor signal) as the primary means of figuring out fuel. With one of those gone it will attempt to guess at it, and it doesn't do very well.

Another thing to check while you're in there replacing the TPS, make sure the high idle linkage works. Its on the same side of the injector unit as the TPS. Mostly it just gets gummy and won't function. Its a mechanical setup, exactly like a carb would use. Without that dropping in, it will usually be hard to start when cold.

[87gtVIC]

Welcome to the forum. Beautiful ride. Good luck with the fixes.

[knucklehead0202]

I have nothing to offer in the technical area but your car is beautiful and i'm glad to see another big ford lover on that side of the pond. You'll get it sorted in no time with help from the good folks here and be scaring hell out of blokes on the B-roads in no time. Cheers!

[DerekTheGreat]

yah I came here to offer some advice and looks like it's not needed lol. My car wouldn't idle at first either and it turned out all the EGR passages were caked up and the valve was sticking. Once that was all cleaned up it idled fine. Would randomly just quit sometimes and that was before I tried investigating a new TFI module or pick-up sensor in the dizzy.

[melharris]

Hi from the UK,
Just wanted to thank everybody for your helpful replies. The Throttle Position Sensor and EGR pressure feedback sensor should be me with early next week, will get those changed. We now have a reader to easier get the codes from the EEC-lV. Also going to check the vacuum to both the EGR valve and to the Canister Purge solenoid. If that doesn't cure it I'll order a new CanP Solenoid and perhaps a MAP sensor as well, they are about $50 each. I'll hold back on the Throttle Body Repair kit as advised

I'll post back after the next stage, and thanks again for all your help!!

[gadget73]

I don't think that the ECM can diagnose if the canp circuit actually works. I'm reasonably sure any code it gives will be about whether the solenoid itself is connected and electrically OK. Ohm checking the coil will probably tell the tale. I'd expect a hundred or so ohms resistance across the terminals. If its open, its bad. If the electrical connector is unplugged or the wiring is broken the ECM will give the same code. Its not all that critical honestly, not having that working won't make it run bad.

[melharris]

We replaced the Throttle position sensor, been driving now for 5 days and the stalling is cured. The idle tick over is a bit higher than it was, but the fault has gone. Thanks for all the advice!!

While the throttle body was off to replace the part we took a look at the High Idle as it has never worked since I got the car. The cam would step up to high idle but not step down again, leaving the car with a very high idle. As a temporary fix we wired up the arm free of the cam so the car could be driven, but as the car has always started fine from cold its been like it ever since. I would like to get it working correctly.
I can see 2 issues. 1. The small spring is broken. 2. The rubber diaphragm has disintegrated causing a vacuum leak. (This may have also effected the running/stalling issue, so we plugged the pipe up.)

My problem is I have gone to my usual US parts supplier website (the one that advertises on this forum) and can't find the parts I need for the first time. I thought there may be a Choke/High Idle Control rebuild kit or a way of getting the parts individually, but I don't really know what to call them. I need the small spring, the rubber diaphragm and possibly the spring coil as well. Can anyone help with the correct part names and where I can get them?? (a company who will ship to the UK)

I am attaching a couple of photos to show the problem parts. Thanks again for any help!!

[gadget73]

The vacuum thing is a choke pulloff, or thats what it would be called on a carb vehicle. Possible they used those same parts on some carb model in the 80s, maybe a Motorcraft 2150?

[kishy]

Glad to hear the TPS helped!

The diaphragm you seek is categorized somewhat incorrectly as a "carburetor choke pull off" and RockAuto indeed sells it, under the fuel/air category.

It seems to serve one of these functions, I do not know for certain which it is:
-forcing high idle, or
-forcing falling off high idle (I'm pretty sure it's this one)
...in either case, by overriding the position of the "choke heater" component.

As for the mechanical part of the linkage, something doesn't look right about yours. However, the spring looks to be the same length as mine, so it may be a positioning issue. I'll study mine and see if I can come up with any suggestions.

[kishy]

Grabbed a couple pics, which should hopefully help in the reassembly.

Bear in mind I've had mine apart and it's possible I got it wrong somehow, but mine works properly, so it should be good enough at least...



If you need any parts of this linkage, someone this side of the globe will likely have to find them in a junkyard and drop them in the mail for you.

(and, for search-engine-friendliness: the photos above are of the Ford CFI fast idle linkage on the throttle body)