I Got a Tudor!

[Billy]

Hey guys,

I'm Billy and I live in Southwestern Kentucky, on 65 between Nashville and Bowling Green. I recently moved there from Massachusetts and I'm still getting settled.
Some of you might know me from other panther sites or from various meets across the country (including STAP 2011).
Today is a great day for me because I bought my fifth panther and first box. It's a 1985 2 door with 127,000 miles. I'm a huge nerd when it comes to whale and aero tech, but I know absolutely nothing about boxes and I am here to ask questions and learn.
I bought the car today and drove it 132 miles home with no issues whatsoever.
The car's been fairly well maintained and doesn't have any serious issues, but there's a few things I might need help with.
-First problem is that the fuel pump was replaced at some point and they either disconnected the floater or messed up some wiring somewhere and the fuel gauge no longer works. Any ideas on how to try and track down the issue without dropping the tank? I've heard that I can check resistance somewhere and that will tell me if the sender is giving out the appropriate signals.
-Second problem is that the driver's side head seems to have really high oil pressure or lots of crankcase blow-by or something else odd. Oil is oozing out the filler cap, and out of the dipstick when the car's running. There's no smoke and the oil isn't going out like crazy, but it leaves a film on the entire dip stick after it's been driving for a while. I've been told that it could be a clogged PCV valve, and if that's the case, where is it and how do I replace it on this car?
-Third problem is that the check engine light either comes on solid or comes on flashing while the car is idling in drive. The car also surges a little. I know next to nothing about OBD-I or EEC-IV, so any help with checking that would be much appreciated. I've heard something about sticking a paper clip in some plugs, but I figured I'd ask what the correct procedure is before poking around.
-Fourth problem is that the car seems to sometimes want to hesitate or stall under heavy throttle 1-2 shift. The transmission doesn't seem to slip, but the engine RPMs go way down. I assume it's a fuel/spark problem relating to that check engine light, but I didn't know if anybody had any ideas.

Besides the little problems that it has, I absolutely love this car so far.
I'd appreciate it if anybody could recommend and cheap or easy mods or maintenance items that I should look into right away. I'm already aware of the the sketchy timing gears needing attention if the engine has them, as well as doing little things like valve cover gaskets, o2 sensor, air filter, fuel filter, and plugs but I don't know if there's anything else I need right away. I can't wait to start working on it and doing some little mods. In the next few months, I'd like to do a HO and SEFI swap or possibly swap in an entire explorer engine if possible. I'd also like to do a little body work, put on a newer front clip, and repaint it.

Anyway, I really look forward to becoming a part of this community. I hope I'll be able to fit in here and contribute to the community and hopefully get to meet up with a few people on here. Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give.

[Billy]

I've done some furious googling tonight and I've decided that since there's no smoke and no crazy lifter noise and no obvious signs of bad rings, I'm going to guess that I have a clogged up PCV valve, so I'm going to grab a new one of those, as well as a new PCV "screen", which I believe is part # FIL 6978 from NAPA. Problem is, they have 2 different parts under that number? Are they the same thing? Why 2 names?

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Crankcase-Ventilation-Filter-Gold-/_/R-FIL6978_0063687929

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Carbon-Canister-Pad/_/R-FIL6978_0006343425

And as for my future mods, I've found through googling that a carb swap is a simpler and less expensive option than a SEFI swap. Nobody seems to like CFI, and I don't understand it at all, so I'd just want to ditch it when I can for something else, and a carb will work and is cheap and probably a better idea. Then again I might just stick with the CFI and learn to love it. My goal is for the ultimate daily driver. Good gas mileage, reliability, and comfort. I could care less about horsepower. That's what my other vic is for. These >150 horses move it well enough for my liking.

[fmansfield444]

Very nice. I live in northern Kentucky near Cincinnati and I saw this Tudor on Craigslist not too long ago.

For your fuel gauge you can always ground one of the wires that goes from sender to the gauge and if the gauge moves, then your sender or float is messed up. Don't remember wire colors. Chances are its the sender or float though.

Also if you are just looking for an economical daily driven car then I would either stay with CFI or go SEFI. If its maintained, and tuned right, CFI can be very fuel efficient, for the weight and size of the car anyway.

Also, others will probably advise against this, but I had similar oil issues you are having and I ended up flushing my engine with kerosene and all is good now. It dissolves the built up oil deposits pretty nicely.

Reading trouble codes on these is very easy, you can do it with a paper clip and counting engine light flashes, but you can also pick up an obd1 ford scanner at the parts store for ~$15.

Very clean looking car and welcome to the forum!

[LimitedStreet]

Hey... I know you from somewhere..

[vabeachsand]

here is a wiring schematic for the engine bay from a 83.


here is another thread on the fuel sender.

http://www.grandmarq.net/vb/showthread.php?39197-Low-fuel-warning-light

[85crownHPP]

and congrats on the purchase!

The fuel level sender is on the front side of the fuel tank, just up and behind the rear axle. You can probe the wires and even replace it if need be without dropping the tank.

In your 85, the PCV valve is in the middle of the oil cap. You don't have a 'screen' like the 86-91 model cars do, you have a foam breather filter inside the air cleaner. There may be some foam or screen material inside the oil cap too.
There is also a chance that its not the PCV valve, and you have engine blow-by (the engine is worn out)....

Also, it does not have a check engine light. The 'engine' light only comes on when the car is overheating or when the oil pressure gets low. Its very common for the light to come on idling in drive... as long as it goes out when you are driving, it only means the engine is 'almost' worn out.
You could try running 10w40 oil and see if that helps. Any engine flush at this point could be risky and could make it worse.

If any problem happens only during any shift, good chance its tans related. How is the transmission fluid level and condition?
Inspect the grommet/bushing on your transmission rod at the throttle end. Its under the air cleaner right next to where the throttle cable attaches to the throttle lever. If that grommet is bad or missing, it can cause funny shifting.
The good thing is, being an 85 or older, your transmission might survive this if that is the case. '86+ seem to be more sensitive to that bushing going bad.

Going SEFI is a great idea - if you can do a carb swap, the SEFI swap isn't much harder.

Taking care of the Nylon timing gears is a good idea too - and while you are at it, you can replace the oil pump and pickup screen which may solve the low oil pressure problem. A compression check would be in order first though, to make sure the piston rings aren't causing the oil blow-by.

[85crownHPP]

here is a wiring schematic for the engine bay from a 83.

An 83 and 85 are different under the hood. 85 is EEC-IV and an 83 is EEC-III, they use very different electronics to run the engine.

[pantera77]

Jeez I forgot these did only have a Replace Engine Light.

As Pete said if the light is on at idle that means you have oil pressure issues. As in, very little oil pressure at idle. Don't worry though, unlike modular's these don't really care that much about oil pressure. I wonder if the nylon is breaking off the timing gears and clogging the pickup, that would explain the surging while driving. Run some 15-40 Rotella T in it and drive it till it dies. Might be worth finding a junkyard explorer engine.

[Billy]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys.
I was all about an explorer swap with SEFI, but I did more digging and some people have had a tough time with the wiring on CFI cars, though maybe that's different because 85 has EEC IV. If it's something you could do in a weekend for a few hundred bucks and a few beers, I'm all over it but if it's something that'd take a hell of a long time, then maybe not. If this engine is toast, I'd almost rather just go ahead and put the explorer stuff in before going through the hassle of opening it up and doing the timing gear.

I'm kind of bummed to hear that the engine might be getting worn. Crankcase blow by because of a worn engine was my first guess when I saw the oil, but there doesn't seem to be any oozing out of the passenger head. I'll replace the PCV and see what happens, but prepare for the worst. The best part about these cars is that pushrod motors are much harder to kill than mod motors. Much much much harder. So I'll just treat it good, put in thick oil, and keep driving it till it starts smoking and tapping.

Trans fluid is red and the TV cable seemed to be good. I don't know how exactly they normally sit, but the cable was still attached and didn't wiggle too much, and the car shifts fine 99% of the time. Just very rarely when merging onto the highway or something, rpms drop way down on the 1-2 shift.

[fmansfield444]

CFI wiring isn't at all complicated on eec4. With a SEFI swap the only wiring that needs to be tied into the 85's wiring is the ignition circuit. 1-2 wires really. Everything else will come from a donor car. One big harness and computer. Most complicated thing is running fuel lines, and TV cable nonsense, which you have to deal with when doing a carb swap anyway. Plenty of CFI-SEFI swap threads on here, including mine, and 2 of them are on 85 crown Vic's, mine included.

Yeah it's always a tough call to determine if you wanna put money and work in the current engine, when you can get a junked explorer motor for $200, around here anyway.

[MrMarquis]

Welcome to GMN! Good lookin' tudor!

[87gtVIC]

Welcome man. Neat ride.

[Billy]

Hey, could somebody tell me exactly what and where to probe or ground to test the fuel sender? I know nothing about electronics or wiring, but I do know how to use a multimeter.

[vabeachsand]

See those two lines running above the tank wrapped in electrical tape? Thats the sending unit wiring.

I notice that one of the lines is just kinda smashed up in there, perhaps its grounding out? It looks like they hacked the lines when they replaced the pump.

[sly]

sending unit (fuel gauge) is the one massive one completely visible in the pic. The other two wires are probably going to the fuel pump on the other side. I'd wrap those in some loom for added protection against shorting on their resting point.